I wonder if individual members ever make decisions against the ant colony. For example if the ant colony as a whole discriminates a certain group of ants, will those ants simply obey? Basically are there rebel ants?
An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
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Re: An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
#52> Ants use the rate at which they meet and smell other ants, or the chemicals deposited by other ants, to decide what to do next. A neuron uses the rate at which it is stimulated by other neurons to decide whether to fire. In both cases, memory arises from changes in how ants or neurons connect and stimulate each other. Main takeaway, very interesting analogy. Ant colonies are great examples of complex systems with e…
We don't really know how old workers get. 1-3 years is the estimate for red wood ants. For Pharaoh Ant workers it's 70 days.
Re: An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
#53Yesterday there was a link in HN regarding artificial intelligence, and a user raised an interesting question: if a ML algorithm can be considered conscious, could a group of people doing the equivalent calculations by hand be the same? I think that ant example answers that question with a strong "yes".
This reminds me of the Chinese Room argument. Basically, it goes like that:
I never took any Chinese lesson. However, suppose I obtain a huge instruction manual that tells me exactly which sequence of Chinese characters I should use to reply to any sequence of Chinese characters you (a native Chinese speaker) give me. Do I "know/understand" Chinese?
Re: An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
#54Yesterday there was a link in HN regarding artificial intelligence, and a user raised an interesting question: if a ML algorithm can be considered conscious, could a group of people doing the equivalent calculations by hand be the same? I think that ant example answers that question with a strong "yes".
There is a theory (albeit unfalsifiable) that collections of communicating agents (such as human beings) may give rise to a higher order consciousness that the individual agents are not aware of, and therefore must necessarily interpret the 'will' of the higher order consciousness as merely 'emergent behavior'.
Collectively we can easily see how stupid individuals can act but individuals can also easily see how stupid a collective can behave. I think besides that obvious lack of insights (both ways) the point where we collectively engage in acts that non of us would ever do proves it is no longer the same creature.
Re: An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
#55Yesterday there was a link in HN regarding artificial intelligence, and a user raised an interesting question: if a ML algorithm can be considered conscious, could a group of people doing the equivalent calculations by hand be the same? I think that ant example answers that question with a strong "yes".
Personally, I don't see any reason not to perceive a commercial company or other similar societal structure as an AI.
People think the company is ran by people but if they step ever so slightly out of the job description (against company interests) they get marked for replacement.
Re: An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
#56I recommend looking up Donald Hoffman's theory of conscious agents. He proposes that all sentient beings are networks of conscious agents, the simplest conscious agent being binary (it has a world, and can only act in two ways). Any composition of conscious agents is itself a conscious agent. Interestingly, "the world" of each conscious agent might be only other conscious agents.
This notion of the 'self' is "standard" in Dharmic traditions, and has been for over two millennia. Then again it remains very fashionable to steal ancient ideas from East and market them as "brand new" genius inventions of Westerners. The amount of uncited plagiarism that occurs in this manner is quite simply astonishing.
The tone and the emotional message of your post though is not at all in the spirit of Dharmic traditions.
What is "stealing" in a world where everything is one and the conscious universe is trying to understand itself in the best way? Why would it assign negative connotation to copying information, if that information is in fact truthful!?
Re: An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
#57Yesterday there was a link in HN regarding artificial intelligence, and a user raised an interesting question: if a ML algorithm can be considered conscious, could a group of people doing the equivalent calculations by hand be the same? I think that ant example answers that question with a strong "yes".
This reminds me of the Chinese Room argument. Basically, it goes like that: I never took any Chinese lesson. However, suppose I obtain a huge instruction manual that tells me exactly which sequence of Chinese characters I should use to reply to any sequence of Chinese characters you (a native Chinese speaker) give me. Do I "know/understand" Chinese?
Yes - the system (you + the book) know Chinese.
Let me ask you another question - when I throw a ball at you your subconcious brain has to solve a differential equation to know how to use muscles to catch that ball.
Do you know how to catch a ball if you don't know the math but still can catch it?
Re: An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
#58But are ants Turing complete ?
Re: An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
#59> Ants use the rate at which they meet and smell other ants, or the chemicals deposited by other ants, to decide what to do next. A neuron uses the rate at which it is stimulated by other neurons to decide whether to fire. In both cases, memory arises from changes in how ants or neurons connect and stimulate each other. Main takeaway, very interesting analogy. Ant colonies are great examples of complex systems with e…
>Main takeaway, very interesting analogy. Ant colonies are great examples of complex systems with emergent large-scale behavior. Indeed the same could be said about networks of neurons. Interesting to think of an ant colony as the sum of oscillations of signals.
Or perhaps like a Fourier decomposition of a complex waveform. Whereby each ant essentially becomes a constituent "wave" in a complex signal.
Re: An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t have (2019)
#60For a sci-fi take on this, Children of Time and Children of Ruin, Adrian Tchaikovsky
...and have to mention the best intelligent Ant movie - Phase IV - trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcs3_b3VXSU