Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#221

Post by threwr324234 » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 5:30 AM UTC

jyounker wrote: post #84

jrsdav wrote: post #5

I experienced this while visiting Japan. While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train. When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said s…

On the other hand, the Japanese are inveterate umbrella thieves. So much so that you will find locking umbrella racks in many buildings. The pressure has to go somewhere.

Yeah.. I'd be wary of cooking up these cliched stories like the BBC. I remember being losing my cheap umbrella at the store. A woman who was happened to be coming out, upon seeing my predicament and on the rain pouring down, handed me some random umbrella from the bucket (or whatever that thing is called). I refused. So she proceeded to give me hers and then she took one from the bucket.

Umbrella's are really communal possessions in Japan. May be its a good thing, may be bad. However, this kind of silly reporting and patronizing 'cultural deconstruction' is really annoying to those of us in Asia who've subject to this for centuries on end.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#222

Post by fiblye » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 5:44 AM UTC

omegaworks wrote: post #66

nwienert wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homogenous, nationalistic, small country with high IQ, good education system, high GDP, low levels of immigration, and a culture that emphasizes community. Oh, and lower levels of inequality, relatively, and a more aligned politics/media system that doesn’t foment distrust.

Immigration has been steadily increasing in Japan.[1] That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement. You can find people of every ethnicity in Tokyo, including many half and full Brazilian people that you could mistake for latinos here in the US[2]. 1. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/03/11/national/japan-... 2. https://en.wik…

I live in the Japanese city with the highest number of Brazilian immigrants. My wife works for a law firm.

Most of their cases are insurance settlements and divorce disputes. They have a few criminal cases, but the overwhelming majority are foreigners. Americans get occasional shoplifting busts, and virtually all drug and violent crime issues are Brazilians and some Filipinos. “Virtually” as in in the year she’s been there, they’ve all been foreigners except for maybe 2 domestic violence cases. Drug distribution cases involving immigrants come in at a rate of at least once a week.

There’s no slum or anything resembling a ghetto here, and virtually all of them have decent employment with auto manufacturers.

Side note, I’m a foreigner as well.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#223

Post by ben0x539 » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 5:51 AM UTC

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #202

BurningFrog wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that for this to work, people have to only take the umbrella you need. Not grab all of them and sell. BTW: I'm really glad to hear this, because I've been having some regrets about grabbing random umbrellas in Tokyo, because everyone seemed to do it. Glad I did it right after all!

I can't even imagine the effort of stealing the office umbrellas and selling them being worth it.

Yeah, right? Who would buy them when you can just grab free umbrellas at every office?

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#224

Post by heavenlyblue » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:02 AM UTC

shadofx wrote: post #70

vkou wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cultural revolution was not the cause of this. Chinese history did not start in 1966. 1966 was preceded by six decades of brutal military occupation, a complete breakdown of law and order, and civil war. I'm not sure you can point at any country that had gone through such a violent, unstable, and lengthy period of fragmentation and bloodshed, and came out on the other end as a cohesive, high-trust society.

Taiwan and South Korea were both bloody, autocratic military regimes. Many nations have walked the bridge to hell and back, but the cultural revolution meant that China burned the bridge after crossing it.

Yeah, but North Korea is still deep in the hole

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#225

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:05 AM UTC

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #202

BurningFrog wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that for this to work, people have to only take the umbrella you need. Not grab all of them and sell. BTW: I'm really glad to hear this, because I've been having some regrets about grabbing random umbrellas in Tokyo, because everyone seemed to do it. Glad I did it right after all!

I can't even imagine the effort of stealing the office umbrellas and selling them being worth it.

Still, I'd expect this system to break down in most non-Japan places because of things like this.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#226

Post by bschwindHN » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:19 AM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #209

jyounker wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, the Japanese are inveterate umbrella thieves. So much so that you will find locking umbrella racks in many buildings. The pressure has to go somewhere.

It’s because almost everyone uses the same umbrellas (cheap from a convenience store). Ive never had any other type taken. It’s hard to tell which one is yours and it basically becomes an umbrella share pool. No big deal. I’ve also had cases where I was caught in the rain and people tried to give me their umbrella.

The hack here is to put distinctive stickers or something on them so anyone picking it up knows it's definitely not theirs. I've had the same umbrella in Japan for 4 years.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#227

Post by Gatsky » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:24 AM UTC

I notice that this story and the story about Carlos Ghosn's escape from Japan are both on the front page of HN.

Lucky for Ghosn, the rest of the world is less successful at returning Japan's lost property.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#228

Post by spats1990 » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:41 AM UTC

rsmckinney wrote: post #206

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it plays a role, but there are countries with similar wealth and support systems, but so many things (like the lost property example) are unique to Japan.

It’s more to do with the purity of their culture resulting from low immigration which fosters a high level of mutual trust. Invariably immigration corrupts the hosting nation’s culture with trust absorbing the initial impact.

"purity" is an odd word choice there when "homogeneity" or perhaps more neutrally "uniformity" are equally accurate.

more broadly, when i see/hear this line deployed by westerners in regard to certain east asian countries, I always wonder if such westerners think such statements are generalisable to other nations, or if they have considered whether other specific cultural factors than uniformity are in play and causing/contributing heavily to the supposed higher level of mutual trust.

It's my view that, other factors disregarded, having fewer cultural/ethnic outgroups does not magically result in higher levels of mutual trust in a society. After more than 4 years in Korea I am tired of westerners using Korean society as a shining beacon-like example of cultural/ethnic uniformity in order to air their beefs with immigration in their home countries (and no, that isn't how I interpreted the parent comment; just pursuing a line of thought).

Another interesting thing to consider: the prevalence of general corporate and political malfeasance in Korea and Japan relative to their status as highly developed nations. Certainly no culture-driven concern for the wellbeing of countrymen there.

edit: Ahh just looked at the parent poster's post history and am now happy to issue a big fat Never Mind. At least I got the thought out.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#229

Post by gnaritas » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 7:05 AM UTC

progman32 wrote: post #180

matheusmoreira wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement. The fact it's a right wing idea doesn't mean it's wrong. A nation's laws is written by its people. The fact is different peoples have different cultures and follow different sets of rules. The ideal immigrant is the one who naturalizes and fully integrates into the existing society. W…

> The ideal immigrant is the one who naturalizes and fully integrates into the existing society. Ideal according to what metric(s)?

According to the population who already lives there and have well-established laws and customs. Humans are tribal, diversity isn't generally desired by most.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#230

Post by cosmodisk » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 7:11 AM UTC

disbshdns wrote: post #196

irrational wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the rain problem? I live in the Pacific Northwest where it rains for 9 months out of the year. Our solution is to not use umbrellas at all. Everyone has a waterproof rain jacket.

I find ppl who wear rain jackets smell (and look goofy)

Do they smell like rain?