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Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

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Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#161

Post by wisty »

jrsdav wrote: post #5

I experienced this while visiting Japan. While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train. When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said s…

If you steal even a few dollars of merchandise from a corner store, the police can hold you for a number of days without trial. And most people won't feel sorry because that's what happens to thieves, so you should have known not to do it.

A society decides what's acceptable, and how far they're willing to go to uphold these expectations.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#162

Post by wisty »

JakeTheAndroid wrote: post #37
jessriedel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree, but note that Japan has 126M people, so it's quite large.

Yeah, but when you compare 126m to 1.3b I feel like you'd expect to see drift between the results. That's 10x the amount of people. If only 1 in every 10 people in each country is willing to break the social norms and ignores social pressures, then China will have 10x the amount of these infractions compared to Japan. But yes, Japan is not a small country even if it is a relatively small landmass.

China is rapidly developing. A lot of Chinese people would LOVE to see a move towards a lot of what Japan has, they just haven't been able to implement it yet (because of historical reasons that left the country screwed up).

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#163

Post by NalNezumi »

yorwba wrote: post #125
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that Japan has a lot more ethnic homogenity than most countries, but this is is a misleading statistic. The Japanese census considers all people with Japanese citizenship to be simply "Japanese" regardless of their race.

There have been 559,789 naturalizations total from 1952 to 2018: http://www.moj.go.jp/content/001180510.pdf Many of those have probably died by now, but likely not without leaving a few descendants. So there may be a million or so Japanese citizens with a family background involving migration within the last few generations. Ainu, Ryukyuans and Burakumin should probably also be counted as "non-homogeneous", even thou…

besides from naturalizations, there's also quite few half-japanese people that acquire citizenship by birth-right. Although I'm pretty sure the wide consensus in Japan is that half-japanese is considered non-japanese, so the number would go down a little bit more.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#164

Post by darkerside »

yboris wrote: post #97
Reedx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article hits on this, suggesting that they are viewed as communal property since they're so abundant, cheap and frequently forgotten. Umbrellas are also an on demand item, so can see how this could evolve as a sort of community solution to the rain problem.

I visited Japan and was caught in the rain with no umbrella. I hid next to an awning near a school. A person came out from inside and offered me to take an umbrella from the numerous ones that were left by the people inside. I suspect "communal property" is a better way to think of what happens with umbrellas than "umbrella thieves".

My family of 5 was caught walking back to our AirBNB in pouring rain during a trip to Tokyo. A man ran out of a FamilyMart (think 7-11), chased us down, and handed us umbrellas for the entire family. My first thought was, how nice of this gentleman to do this for complete strangers.

My second thought, how cheap am I for not walking my family in the store to buy the damn umbrellas myself?!

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#165

Post by hutzlibu »

hocuspocus wrote: post #135
irrational wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the rain problem? I live in the Pacific Northwest where it rains for 9 months out of the year. Our solution is to not use umbrellas at all. Everyone has a waterproof rain jacket.

In Japan and many other parts of East Asia, it rains most during the hottest months of summer. You don't wear jackets when it's 30+ °C and humid outside. But after living in the region for many years, I agree people also tend to be a bit irrationally afraid of the rain.

Ah, but I suppose there are areas with bigger fears of rain. I was hitchhiking through spain and someone who picked me up was a wine farmer, who told stories of people not coming to work, because that day it was raining - in a different village.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#166

Post by darkerside »

hocuspocus wrote: post #135
irrational wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the rain problem? I live in the Pacific Northwest where it rains for 9 months out of the year. Our solution is to not use umbrellas at all. Everyone has a waterproof rain jacket.

In Japan and many other parts of East Asia, it rains most during the hottest months of summer. You don't wear jackets when it's 30+ °C and humid outside. But after living in the region for many years, I agree people also tend to be a bit irrationally afraid of the rain.

It's funny, in Japan, nobody wears sunglasses, but _everybody_ carries an umbrella. Basically the opposite in the US.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#167

Post by hutzlibu »

atom-morgan wrote: post #140
jyounker wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, the Japanese are inveterate umbrella thieves. So much so that you will find locking umbrella racks in many buildings. The pressure has to go somewhere.

That's interesting because when I visited I went to an onsen and my umbrella didn't fit the lock system. Then I thought, "What do I have to worry about? I'm in Japan. Nobody will steal it." 3 hours later and it was still there waiting for me.

Probably because it was not raining?

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#168

Post by m4rtink »

jrsdav wrote: post #5

I experienced this while visiting Japan. While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train. When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said s…

LOL, we went by that on platform noodle shop (I think they specialize in Soba) a couple times this summer, but never had the time to eat there in the end. :) Was their food good ? :-D

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#169

Post by NalNezumi »

nwienert wrote: post #16
virtuous_signal wrote: post #10

This smells like a lot of post-hoc rationalization. Collectivism? What about China, which did terribly on this kind of test. Shintoism? Only 3-4% of the population follows that. See https://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-people-are-honest-los... where the graphic in the middle of the page compares countries. It appears that Scandinavian countries fare best followed by Eastern European. I would be happy to hear what p…

Homogenous, nationalistic, small country with high IQ, good education system, high GDP, low levels of immigration, and a culture that emphasizes community. Oh, and lower levels of inequality, relatively, and a more aligned politics/media system that doesn’t foment distrust.

>Homogenous, nationalistic, small country with high IQ, good education system, high GDP, low levels of immigration, and a culture that emphasizes community.

I've lived in a Scandinavian country with similar quantities most of my life (well except low levels of immigration) but I can't recall a single time lost property came back, even at a local small town bakery. The experience is very different from my life living in Tokyo.

>Oh, and lower levels of inequality, relatively, and a more aligned politics/media system that doesn’t foment distrust.

Considering my homecountry having almost the lowest level of inequality in the world, and a highly aligned political/media system I don't think this is a factor either.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#170

Post by hutzlibu »

1996 wrote: post #82
raarts wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We Dutch have a similar proverb: "Whoever sticks his head above ground level, his head is cut off. "

Tall poppy syndrome, which can be oppressive in Northern Europe. Germany seems more relaxed than the Netherlands, and France seems to be worse. I've had friends telling me their Mercedes got frequently keyed for no reason, and the old Mercedes star on their classic even got ripped off.

" and the old Mercedes star on their classic even got ripped off."

That was a competition for punkers. Who could get the most of these stars ...

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