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Many games are held together by duct tape

polygon.com

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Re: Many games are held together by duct tape

#71

Post by dejawu »

rlayton2 wrote: post #10

Watching speed runners play through games is a great way to visualise not only this aspect (that games are flimsy at best), but to visualise the same practice in any software - if you don't code defensively, often a simple mis-input breaks the game. A common pattern in many speed runs is finding some glitch through a door, and then the game logic kicks in and says "you are past this door, so you must have got the key…

During the Hotline: Miami run this year the runner mentioned that on certain GPUs the game would crash unavoidably after 25 minutes due to a memory leak, and that if you wanted to increase the FPS you could plug in more mice.

None of that precluded it from being a great game, though.

https://youtu.be/aPnobTZfnfU

Re: Many games are held together by duct tape

#72

Post by petermcneeley »

AstralStorm wrote: post #55
huffmsa wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like they were mislead as to what their career prerequisites were. Or we're just churning out too many Phds

Specifically job requirements are incorrect. Which big companies have figured out and are hiring for cheap in China and India.

Is that really whats happening? The way I see it is the old guys without even degrees worked on higher quality code than their younger counterparts with increasing levels of education.

I think the issue is probably touched on by something like " bullshit jobs" by David graeber

Re: Many games are held together by duct tape

#73

Post by mywittyname »

mr-ron wrote: post #61
somesortofsystm wrote: post #19

I recently found myself trying to describe modern software techniques to a layman, who is a carpenter. "Its like this - you're hired to build a house. First, you have to go get someone motivated to harvest the raw materials for you - designs, logic, etc. - which will then be turned into the 'raw wood' that holds up the walls and keeps the roof on. Then, when that person is busy getting the materials cut, you start bu…

I legitimately don't understand this metaphor at all

I think it's like,

1) get a product owner to describe requirements (not sure why they are gathering raw mats instead of producing blue prints)

2) He tries to steal code from previous jobs to bring to new jobs, because he pretend that he "owns" them.

3) He can't steal code from previous jobs because he left them in the walls.

4) Javascript is glue.

Re: Many games are held together by duct tape

#75

Post by ndesaulniers »

hopfog wrote: post #12

I run a small MMORPG and I'm considering open-sourcing the whole thing but the code is a complete mess. The source code of VVVVVV is a work of art in comparison. What holds me back are 1. I'm ashamed to reveal the monstrosity 2. I'm afraid the code is too messy for anyone to be able to make contributions 3. it will make it much easier for hackers to find exploits. It's a shame because I think the game would be really…

No one will care (that it's messy). This is a common reason people don't open source software, and it doesn't matter.

Re: Many games are held together by duct tape

#76

Post by Ocerge »

michaelbrooks wrote: post #29
rlayton2 wrote: post #10

Watching speed runners play through games is a great way to visualise not only this aspect (that games are flimsy at best), but to visualise the same practice in any software - if you don't code defensively, often a simple mis-input breaks the game. A common pattern in many speed runs is finding some glitch through a door, and then the game logic kicks in and says "you are past this door, so you must have got the key…

Thanks to Breath of the Wild, I've recently enjoyed watching a few speedruns and it's amazing to see the number of glitches in BoTW. Check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEtHpCfi_DE I also don't understand how anyone can accept speedrunning through glitches as a world record, but I guess if everyone does the same run with similar or the same glitches then it's fair? Seems like it just becomes a race to know…

Sorry for the downvotes. For the speedrunning community, somebody pointing out that using glitches during a speedrun is cheating is a bit like making an obvious joke about somebody's last name. Not the first time they've heard it, and won't be the last :)

Re: Many games are held together by duct tape

#77

Post by benologist »

Games, websites, and everything else - both Apple [1] and Dropbox [2] got passwords wrong in the last decade. I am in awe of the NASA programmers who have virtually no bugs [3].

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/29/macos-hig...

[2] https://www.cnet.com/news/dropbox-confirms-security-glitch-n...

[3] https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff

Re: Many games are held together by duct tape

#78

Post by leetcrew »

huffmsa wrote: post #45
michaelbrooks wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks to Breath of the Wild, I've recently enjoyed watching a few speedruns and it's amazing to see the number of glitches in BoTW. Check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEtHpCfi_DE I also don't understand how anyone can accept speedrunning through glitches as a world record, but I guess if everyone does the same run with similar or the same glitches then it's fair? Seems like it just becomes a race to know…

Playing the meta is part of the game. If you're not loading in other code or using 3rd party assistance, it's fair. Understanding the buy strategy in CSGO doesn't make you a "cheater", in means you understand how to stretch the game to it's limits. Mike Vrabel taking penalties to burn the clock might seen unfair, but he was just leveraging the rules as written to improve his chances of winning.

> Understanding the buy strategy in CSGO doesn't make you a "cheater", in means you understand how to stretch the game to it's limits.

the economy in cs is a core mechanic of the game. I don't know of any buy strategies that are even close to considered "exploits".

a better example would be illegal boosts. in the old days, there were many OP positions you could get into by boosting on top of other players (or even throwables in midair). each competitive league would have its own lists of illegal boost spots for each map. boosting on throwables was almost always illegal. you could also do stuff like defuse through walls, which was always illegal.

bunnyhopping was something of a grey area. some leagues allowed it, while others didn't. it was eventually patched out of the default game settings behind an svar.

allowing literally anything that didn't involve loading external code would have severely broken cs:source. there were even ways of replacing assets that would effectively give you wallhacks without injecting any code. these decisions always comes down to "how much does this deviate from the balance designed by the developer?" and most importantly "is the game still fun with this behavior?"

Re: Many games are held together by duct tape

#79

Post by braythwayt »

raxxorrax wrote: post #48
braythwayt wrote: post #20

Nit: I wish people wouldn’t mention programming and computer science in the same essay, unless it’s something very technical such as discussing synchronization algorithms. Most programming isn’t science. Most programming isn’t even engineering. Most programming is contracting or DIY tinkering. We use ridiculous metaphors like constructing an airport, when most programmers are tradespeople working on renovations. Have…

The field is called computer "science" and maybe that creates expectations. But from experience I know that almost all engineering professions put on their pants one leg at a time. There is certainly a large difference between theoretical and applied physicists and computer science lacks this discrimination, but engineering is often about cutting corners where nobody takes a closer look. If a colleague of mine calcul…

I wish the following quote was etched in stone, then the stone was loaded into a Trebuchet, and then said Trebuchet was used to lob the stone into the offices of hiring managers worldwide:

“Computer Science is no more about computers, than Astronomy is about telescopes.”

(Djikstra didn’t originate this. A longer and more interesting version of this was said by Hal Abelson, and a shorter version by Mike Fellows, who said it was a rallying cry of the period. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Computer_science)

If we stop thinking that computer science is about computers, perhaps we’ll stop thinking a computer science degree is a requirement for clerking or practising a trade in the field, and universities will stop trying to provide a trade education with a gown, mortar, and “science” degree.

Re: Many games are held together by duct tape

#80

Post by phn »

I think code quality is important, and big studios make a buck on having clean and workable code they keep improving over time.

That being said, and especially on indie games like VVVVVV, hammering in a cool little detail gives the final product much more value than having clean code.

That's why big engines with mature coding patterns sometimes are not the way to go to make a cool little thing. Making novel mechanics (e.g. time reversal in Braid, or the super tight controls of Super Meat Boy) with an existing engine, while possible, would probably be a PITA.

The "hackability" of the engine you use can allow you to be more creative, even if a bit messy to maintain.

Back in the days of flash, I'd probably use a simple display list engine (flixel comes to mind) to do the heavy lifting, and hack away with those basic building blocks.

Nowadays, I was surprised by the relative hackability you get with godot[0], while still being able to tap into what you can call a mature engine. If you like to make small games, you owe it to yourself to check it out.

[0]: https://godotengine.org/

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