Life at the End of American Empire • Hacker News Board

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#31

Post by kp98 » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #24

kp98 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because America has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_o...

Cancer and cardiovascular disease outcomes are a strange way to measure how much of the population is in poor health, especially when US life expectancy has fallen for three years straight, more than half the country is obese or overweight, and it has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world. None of that even remotely implies good health.

Im not saying it is a great healthcare system, just that it isn't so bad as to be comparable to the soviet union. At any rate, life expectancy also seems like a strange way to measure the health care system. To measure the health of the general population sure, but we're talking about the healthcare system, and I don't think that those who actively destroy their bodies via drugs or junk food are giving us an accurate picture of the real efficacy of the system. That being said if you want to look at those deaths and say the healthcare system isn't doing enough for them - then fair enough. I would just look at something like decreasing life expectancy caused by suicides and opioids and say maybe this has something to do with wealth inequality rather than the efficacy of our healthcare.

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#32

Post by pwinnski » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #19

fbonetti wrote: post #15

It’s funny that the author on one hand acknowledges that the government sucks at everything it does, whether it’s education, infrastructure, or health insurance. He also acknowledges that the federal government has a tendency to constantly engage in costly foreign wars regardless of who happens to be in office. Yet his proposed solution is to give the government even more money and even more power.

Thus, ironically, the problem for both the right and the left is the same one- that governments today are too weak . The right needs an at least temporarily strong government to effect the dismantling of the state , whereas the left needs a strong government not merely to respond to the grinding conditions of the economic “recovery”, but to overturn previous policies, put in new protections and find some alternative…

The idea of using "temporary" power to effect the dismantling of structures of power was appealing to Sulla, too. Fortunately for him, he died before seeing Julius Caesar follow his precedent to establish Rome as an empire, and Caesar himself as emperor for life.

History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#33

Post by mdorazio » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #16

_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I'm not yet at the point of starting a family, but when the time approaches I'm going to seriously consider other, more functional societies as places to do so.

What's keeping you from considering those other societies now? Why wait until you're starting a family?

For most people: economic opportunity. Which is itself a funny thing because it at least seems like the more socially progressive a place is the less opportunity there is to gain financial success quickly, so you end up with this weird situation where people want to have their cake and eat it too by working in the US for 10-15 years and then moving elsewhere.

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#34

Post by LifeLiverTransp » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

Every empire dies, because the central bureacracy allows for subversion of value. You can produce good barrles? Well, the barell producer in governments town is the only one who can produce them with the new holes required by law.

It seeps into every corner, into the very mindset. This is how it has to be done. I think, the best way to recovery, actually is to let go, accelerate the downfall so to speak - of the empire. It seems counter-intuitive, but once you can not live of the externally produced surplus, the meritocracy of the market gets a grip again.

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#35

Post by aquova » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

This is a well written article, covering a lot of the issues currently facing the country. It's something I think about occasionally, and the opinion I think I've eventually come to is that while it's nice to think of ourselves as the top in the world in many aspects, it's okay to contract a bit and let the empire shrink back. He often compares to Europe and China, who are in different stages of what might be the naturally progression of global powers. Europe had its world supreme phase, with several nations being eligible for best in the world at different points. Post-WWII, they (for one reason or another) scaled back and now have the high quality of living we see today. China is where the US was 50 years ago, with rapid, grandiose projects and economic success. But eventually those structures will crumble as they are in the US and they will be where we are now.

I'm not sure what will happen. I think standards will continue to slip while politicians play more into more into the "America #1" card until it finally isn't feasible to do so. I don't think there will be a glorious revolution or anything, more like economic downturn changing the political layout slowly, causing even the giant corporate actors to go bust. Eventually America will scale back until it reaches the equilibrium that Europe is closer to reaching.

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#36

Post by neuralRiot » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

fbonetti wrote: post #15

It’s funny that the author on one hand acknowledges that the government sucks at everything it does, whether it’s education, infrastructure, or health insurance. He also acknowledges that the federal government has a tendency to constantly engage in costly foreign wars regardless of who happens to be in office. Yet his proposed solution is to give the government even more money and even more power.

The government doesn’t suck at everything it does, the problem is that people still believe that the government works for them. The wars objective is not to “win” but to create the need for the military infrastructure, same as the healthcare system primary objective is not healing people but to create the need for itself.

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#37

Post by 8bitsrule » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:47 PM UTC

Yet another cold, miserable, accurate report on the state of affairs. They're always 90% about the problems, 10% on what we could do, only if.

We need leadership committed to picking something that needs doing and then doing it. Stat. Two teams pulling in opposite directions aren't moving the ball. Without a third? It's over.

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#38

Post by novok » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:47 PM UTC

FillardMillmore wrote: post #4

> ...the prevalence of poor health [in America] is on par with the former Soviet-bloc states of Central and Eastern Europe This claim seems tough to believe, but I suppose part of it does depend on what you classify as 'poor health'. If anyone knows sources that back up this claim, I'd be interested to read them.

Large amounts of obesity.

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#39

Post by pseudolus » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:48 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #23

Animats wrote: post #7

"Any single defeat can be attributed to particular and ad hoc circumstances, but America is unique among the world’s dominant powers of the past 500 years in its repeated failure to achieve military objectives over decades. Those failures are even more extraordinary because they occurred in the absence of a rising military rival and as America’s ability and willingness to produce and pay for the weapons needed for mi…

The US has had plenty of moral lapses in its military adventures, but one suspects that the powers of the past 500 years would have been far more willing to obliterate entire nations without concern for civilians.

I'm sure you'd find a strong dissent to your argument from the numerous peoples who were the first inhabitants of North America.

Re: Life at the End of American Empire

#40

Post by yepguy » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #19

fbonetti wrote: post #15

It’s funny that the author on one hand acknowledges that the government sucks at everything it does, whether it’s education, infrastructure, or health insurance. He also acknowledges that the federal government has a tendency to constantly engage in costly foreign wars regardless of who happens to be in office. Yet his proposed solution is to give the government even more money and even more power.

Thus, ironically, the problem for both the right and the left is the same one- that governments today are too weak . The right needs an at least temporarily strong government to effect the dismantling of the state , whereas the left needs a strong government not merely to respond to the grinding conditions of the economic “recovery”, but to overturn previous policies, put in new protections and find some alternative…

https://conventionofstates.com/