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Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

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Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#641

Post by tomp »

reroute1 wrote: post #638
tomp wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can have empathetic and respectful goals and use systems and optimisation to achieve them. Take sex for example. As a heterosexual man, I’ve no idea what’s intrinsically pleasurable to women. I think that giving sexual pleasure is a respectul, empathetic intention. Given this goal, I can use systematic approach to satisfy it (find pleasure trigger points and apply them).

Where is your systemic approach and optimization in this example? You haven't given any information on the approach other than find pleasure points. That's not using systems and optimization, so no it's not dehumanizing. If on the other hand you carefully studied adult films, read the kama sutra, and practiced this at every opportunity you might have a systemic approach. And if your partner learned about this I don't…

Not porn and Kamasutra in particular, but yeah I’ve read books, blogs, Reddit, ... definitely experimented a bit (not at every opportunity though).

Just because people cringe at some information doesn’t make the whole thing dehumanizing. You’re right though that most people don’t want to know how the sausage / burger is made...

Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#642

Post by celticmusic »

nkrisc wrote: post #576
celticmusic wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

resource is also more specific than people, that doesn't obviate it from being dehumanizing.

"Resource" being dehumanizing doesn't make "stakeholder" dehumanizing. Of course, everything depends on context. Do you think in this context I was trying to dehumanize the people I was referring to? To what end?

> "Resource" being dehumanizing doesn't make "stakeholder" dehumanizing.

This is such a poor thought process, and a strawman to boot. I never made any claims about causality between them. I pointed out you can't defend "stakeholder as dehumanizing" by claiming it's more specific and the example I used to demonstrate this was that "resource" is more specific than 'people', yet 'resource' is considered dehumanizing whereas 'people' is not.

I'm not even going to bother answer your question.

you're using stakeholder to mean "anyone in any way involved", much the way resource means "anyone I manage". That is not what that word means in agile vernacular. When you mean that, just say people.

I've seen several people recently using it this way. Fast forward 5-10 years and people will be bitching about stakeholder being dehumanizing just like they do resource.

Your usage is akin to calling a garbage truck driver a stakeholder in the city wide trash system. That's not how that word was meant to be used.

Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#643

Post by pro-duct »

jethro_tell wrote: post #590
Nursie wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fixed my mum's computer a few years back (cleaned up some adware and other stuff that was making it awful to use) and did a bunch of virus scans and cleanup etc. After a while she asked "Is this what you do for a job?" The conception of what happens inside our industry just isn't present in the wider population, and I imagine we're not unique in that.

Yes, this is a thing we see over and over. With all this extra access to learning and advancements in fields, that previous generations didn't have, there's a bit of a gap in truly understanding the complexities of various fields. We see this attitude a lot that kind of assumes anyone who isn't digging ditches is playing dress up, and anyone could put on the outfit and do it. That's why we have things like anti-vax,…

> People can't even wrap their mind around real automation, they still assume it's going to be mechanization from the industrial revolution with computers. And there's so much else in this industry that people can't even understand that affects them in every day life situations.

Terrifying, isn't it?

Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#644

Post by president »

AWildC182 wrote: post #624
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have utterly given that up to Asia. It's now obvious to me that recovering this capability in the US would require decades of focused investment and trade policy. The Foxconn debacle in Wisconsin is just that, a debacle. Scott Walker is an even bigger fool than I thought. I've lost hope for the US political class to have the concerted will to enact the required policies and incentives.

On the other hand, the amount of money you can actually make on electronics manufacturing pales in comparison to the money that can be made selling software for those devices. The margins in electronics suck, and this is coming from someone who really enjoys doing electronics design. It's also worth noting that in a lot of areas the software effort required to make things work well dwarfs the work that goes into the…

> I think it's probably ok to let Asia have this and worry about staying ahead on all the tons of stuff that has to go on top.

Why does it have to be mutually exclusive? We should have a strong manufacturing base in addition to being strong in software and "stuff that has to go on top".

Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#645

Post by president »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #606

The insane amount of work that goes into QA of consumer electronics. I also now viscerally understand how China has a stranglehold on world manufacture of electronics. The concentration of skill, infrastructure, and related industries in Shenzhen or other Chinese industrial cities is unequaled in the USA. We have utterly given that up to Asia. Back to QA: I learned what "DPPM" means: Defective Parts Per Million. A mo…

Unfortunately, software seems to have gone the other direction with many companies ditching their QA departments and relying solely on "Developers Own Quality" initiatives.

Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#646

Post by AWildC182 »

president wrote: post #644
AWildC182 wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, the amount of money you can actually make on electronics manufacturing pales in comparison to the money that can be made selling software for those devices. The margins in electronics suck, and this is coming from someone who really enjoys doing electronics design. It's also worth noting that in a lot of areas the software effort required to make things work well dwarfs the work that goes into the…

> I think it's probably ok to let Asia have this and worry about staying ahead on all the tons of stuff that has to go on top. Why does it have to be mutually exclusive? We should have a strong manufacturing base in addition to being strong in software and "stuff that has to go on top".

Specialization and development takes resources away from other things. Just getting people to move in any given direction alone takes political capital that could otherwise be used for other things.

That's not to say we should abandon it as there are national security concerns inherent to not being able to manufacture electronics in the country, but we shouldn't stress ourselves over being the world leaders in the maximum possible generation of plastic+FR4 shit.

Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#647

Post by nkrisc »

celticmusic wrote: post #642
nkrisc wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Resource" being dehumanizing doesn't make "stakeholder" dehumanizing. Of course, everything depends on context. Do you think in this context I was trying to dehumanize the people I was referring to? To what end?

> "Resource" being dehumanizing doesn't make "stakeholder" dehumanizing. This is such a poor thought process, and a strawman to boot. I never made any claims about causality between them. I pointed out you can't defend "stakeholder as dehumanizing" by claiming it's more specific and the example I used to demonstrate this was that "resource" is more specific than 'people', yet 'resource' is considered dehumanizing whe…

Now I'm not sure if you were upset that I was dehumanizing them or that I was using a jargon-y term.

I'm sensing it's really the latter, but just a guess. Is that word the only issue you took with what I wrote? I could change it for you.

Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#648

Post by anbotero »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #628
demadog wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, my mind is blown right now at how well you captured this feeling. I also worked at McDonald's at 15 and it was thrilling to be working a real job for the first time in life, and see the inner workings of a corporation perfected over 50+ years, notwithstanding the terribly bad for you product. I also remember working the order taking window and getting into the flow of quickly finding the items after you master t…

The closest feeling I've found in programming is when I listen to film scores and a crescendo or mood in the music lines up perfectly with some great success in development, like that score was written for that moment in time and you feel a magical cathartic release that is both elevated and extended by the music. It's amazing, but it's also a bit distracting. Thankfully, as you're coming down off that high the music…

Yes! I think it becomes distracting if you listen too much of the same genre, and if you mix awesome songs similar to the feelings you describe but with different genres, those moments can become more frequent.

I sometimes write code at the rhythm of those songs, and it’s amazing for my productivity.

Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#649

Post by celticmusic »

nkrisc wrote: post #647
celticmusic wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Resource" being dehumanizing doesn't make "stakeholder" dehumanizing. This is such a poor thought process, and a strawman to boot. I never made any claims about causality between them. I pointed out you can't defend "stakeholder as dehumanizing" by claiming it's more specific and the example I used to demonstrate this was that "resource" is more specific than 'people', yet 'resource' is considered dehumanizing whe…

Now I'm not sure if you were upset that I was dehumanizing them or that I was using a jargon-y term. I'm sensing it's really the latter, but just a guess. Is that word the only issue you took with what I wrote? I could change it for you.

You continue to strawman, lets just end it here.

Re: Ask HN: What has your work taught you that other people don't realize?

#650

Post by AceJohnny2 »

kccqzy wrote: post #610
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #606

The insane amount of work that goes into QA of consumer electronics. I also now viscerally understand how China has a stranglehold on world manufacture of electronics. The concentration of skill, infrastructure, and related industries in Shenzhen or other Chinese industrial cities is unequaled in the USA. We have utterly given that up to Asia. Back to QA: I learned what "DPPM" means: Defective Parts Per Million. A mo…

The insane amount of work that goes into just manufacturing. The United States prides itself by having high-value functions like design, while offshoring manufacturing. But manufacturing consumer electronics is no longer simple. We have given up on manufacturing these electronics completely.

> The United States prides itself by having high-value functions like design, while offshoring manufacturing.

And looking at the meteoric rise of Huawei, Xiaomi, and Mediatek, I have no doubt that the US will lose that lead sooner than we think.

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