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Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

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Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#111

Post by swyx »

huherto wrote: post #65
swyx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think i am an under-performing developer. if you dont mind sharing some secret sauce... what are the first questions you think about asking to diagnose whats going on?

I would look at three things. - Do you have autonomy in your job ? You need to be able to do your job without having to ask for permission every five minutes. You should also have some freedom on how to do it. - Do you feel you are getting better at your job ? Every day you need to have the feeling that you are becoming better at it. Is your job hard enough but not too hard. Too many unknowns may cause frustration. T…

ahh. 2 and 3 are killers. i need to go meditate on this.

to be fair tho, i don't expect most tech jobs to actually have a strong sense of purpose. it's that old SV trope of "we're making the world a better place through minimal message-oriented transport layers".

#2 is a great question. its kind of like looking at the job through game design. its true i dont feel like i'm becoming better and i dont see a clear path to becoming better. I will probably actually use this line of thinking to have a convo with my manager.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#112

Post by swyx »

blowski wrote: post #55
swyx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think i am an under-performing developer. if you dont mind sharing some secret sauce... what are the first questions you think about asking to diagnose whats going on?

What makes you think you're under-performing? I think the "secret" is simply to make sure people know what they're suppoesd to be doing, that they want to do it, and that they feel they have everything they need to do it. That won't necessarily always work, because not all under-performance is work-related - if you've just had a baby, going through divorce or bereavement, I'd expect you to be 'under-performing' and w…

thanks, will drop an email (to be clear its not like i was expecting any solutions here, i just like learning about how managers manage).

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#113

Post by mixmastamyk »

JimboOmega wrote: post #73

Does the book cover how to get the position in the first place? I've read countless books (Like "The Managers Path" and "Managing Humans"), blog articles, etc, and tried many strategies, but it never seems to happen. Usually for the catch-22 reason of not having managing experience. I've even had past managers they had no worries about me having the skills or knowledge to do it... but it still doesn't happen.

The first thing is to step up and become the lead developer on your team. If you’re not being proactive folks won’t imagine it on their own. Clothes are another angle. If you look and act like a leader, soon you shall be one.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#114

Post by vi-mode »

thewanisdown wrote: post #109
vi-mode wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. You can move mountains with good teams, this is great and you will draw satisfaction from. But IDK if you had ever 100+ people in your reporting line for a longer time. Then you knew that it's everything BUT definitely not a lot of fun . It's super hard work and will push you and your mind dangerously to the limit.

It's a different mindset, but I still think it's fun. For me, the key with that size of a group was focusing on the development of the leaders under me. When I make sure they are set up for success, things go smoothly. The hardest time in my life was trying to micromanage a large group. Once you let go, and focus on the bigger picture, it's quite fun. Challenging, for sure, but very fun.

Hint: you should never frame your reports in such a way ('leaders under me'), 101 of leadership; but let's move on: I think we are not talking about the same; managing people has no short-term feedback loops like coding, it can be fun yes but many confuse this fun with the status involved; from a rational perspective and with the experience of heading larger headcounts (did you lead 100+ teams for a longer time?) paired with hitting ambitious org goals, I find it hard to call 'managing people' fun.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#115

Post by mandelbrotwurst »

enraged_camel wrote: post #104
burlesona wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000x less fun? That’s extremely subjective, and depends enormously on what you draw satisfaction from. Leading people can be a lot of fun if you genuinely care about the people you are leading and take joy from empowering and enabling them to grow and succeed.

I don't see this as subjective, because dealing with computers and technology is a fundamentally different type of activity, and requires a totally different set of skills, than dealing with people. If you're the type of person who enjoys the former, I think it's safe to say you won't enjoy the latter much, at least not at first.

> dealing with computers and technology is a fundamentally different type of activity, and requires a totally different set of skills, than dealing with people.

Sure.

> If you're the type of person who enjoys the former, I think it's safe to say you won't enjoy the latter much

This seems like a bit of a leap. People can be good at and enjoy things that are very different.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#116

Post by cr0sh »

> If anyone's at all interested in learning about what it's like to pitch a publisher with their own book idea, then I guess I've been successful at that now, so I'm more than happy to give you any advice.

Maybe this needs to be a new book?

Seriously, all of this sounds wonderful - and thank you (but I would love to hear some tips on getting a book published from zero - I certainly write enough that I could probably fill a book, whether anyone would read it though...???).

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#117

Post by vi-mode »

mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #115
enraged_camel wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as subjective, because dealing with computers and technology is a fundamentally different type of activity, and requires a totally different set of skills, than dealing with people. If you're the type of person who enjoys the former, I think it's safe to say you won't enjoy the latter much, at least not at first.

> dealing with computers and technology is a fundamentally different type of activity, and requires a totally different set of skills, than dealing with people. Sure. > If you're the type of person who enjoys the former, I think it's safe to say you won't enjoy the latter much This seems like a bit of a leap. People can be good at and enjoy things that are very different.

Yes but the context here is coder transforms to manager. And coders got coders because they like short feedback-loops.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#118

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

redleader9345 wrote: post #79
sanderjd wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without commenting on the specifics on your comment: what does this have to do with the OP's book? If anything, writing a book with ideas, experiences, and techniques aimed at helping people be better at this job is responsive to all the problems you identify.

Just commentary on the engineer turned manager narrative. Please forgive if it is out of place. Should I delete it?

Yes, and delete Dilbert too as it makes this engineering approach to management seem more complex than we'd like it to be.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#120

Post by JimboOmega »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #113
JimboOmega wrote: post #73

Does the book cover how to get the position in the first place? I've read countless books (Like "The Managers Path" and "Managing Humans"), blog articles, etc, and tried many strategies, but it never seems to happen. Usually for the catch-22 reason of not having managing experience. I've even had past managers they had no worries about me having the skills or knowledge to do it... but it still doesn't happen.

The first thing is to step up and become the lead developer on your team. If you’re not being proactive folks won’t imagine it on their own. Clothes are another angle. If you look and act like a leader, soon you shall be one.

Well I am a woman, so there is that image problem automatically.

You're right about the other bit, though. Even as the most knowledgeable and senior person on the team, I do have something of a habit of letting people who are loud derail me from my ideas (or simply talk over me), which can damage perceptions. It's a thing I try to fight every day, though.

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