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Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

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Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#101

Post by mixmastamyk »

jstanier wrote: post #88
blowski wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really hit the nail on the head there. It's so hard to give the right people the right information at the right time. I like the idea of the newsletter. Do you focus mostly on achievements, or discuss 'ways of working' as well? I'm really looking forward to the book, by the way.

Thank you! The target audience for the newsletter was decided as "the busy exec". Not too much text, lots of gifs of functionality that we've built, etc. There's some separate newsletters we do as well - there's a fortnightly "what's going on in the backend" one, curated by our infrastructure teams that's aimed at engineers. Currently the general case newsletter goes to Engineering, Product, Product Design, and the e…

Gifs? Don’t low quality animations make it hard to read?

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#102

Post by brianmcc »

JimboOmega wrote: post #90
brianmcc wrote: post #32

If anyone is considering moving into engineering management, you'd do well to look not just at the how but the why . If it's for status/salary rather than the change in nature of the work be very careful about making the move. You need to really want to manage and develop people (with all the idiosyncracies that real human beings come with!), and to communicate, co-ordinate, and delegate for a living. Some will love…

Who cares that much about the salary when you are that point in the Software Engineeering career track in SV anyway? What, really, is the difference between making $300K/yr and even fully doubling that to $600K? A nicer apartment, a nicer car, an earlier retirement? These are pretty marginal things if the cost is spending most of your time doing something you don't like. The most common reason somebody becomes an EM…

Interesting insight. I would say that most of us s/ware engineers don't live in SV though, and often a salary bump truly is a tempting and significant incentive. But I'd like to think ICs are being better accommodated now (I know we are, in some more progressive places).

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#103

Post by rainyMammoth »

In most big companies in Silicon valley, being a manager is not a promotion but rather a parallel track.

What I find strange is that most of big cos expect managers to not be technical anymore. There is that weird expectation that the manager should have been technical in the past but is now only used as an enabler for the team.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#104

Post by enraged_camel »

burlesona wrote: post #87
vi-mode wrote: post #80

OT: for those who have never been in leader/managerial positions: - Leading people is 1000x less fun than coding - Leading people makes your more money than as an avg coder - Leading people too long makes you lose your technical skills slowly - At some age and for most, there's no other option than leading, 'go or grow' - Leading bigger headcounts is comparable to competitive sports 24/7 and shouldn't be underestimat…

1000x less fun? That’s extremely subjective, and depends enormously on what you draw satisfaction from. Leading people can be a lot of fun if you genuinely care about the people you are leading and take joy from empowering and enabling them to grow and succeed.

I don't see this as subjective, because dealing with computers and technology is a fundamentally different type of activity, and requires a totally different set of skills, than dealing with people. If you're the type of person who enjoys the former, I think it's safe to say you won't enjoy the latter much, at least not at first.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#105

Post by chillydawg »

Aperocky wrote: post #95
vi-mode wrote: post #80

OT: for those who have never been in leader/managerial positions: - Leading people is 1000x less fun than coding - Leading people makes your more money than as an avg coder - Leading people too long makes you lose your technical skills slowly - At some age and for most, there's no other option than leading, 'go or grow' - Leading bigger headcounts is comparable to competitive sports 24/7 and shouldn't be underestimat…

What are your opinions on autonomous team members? I understand that organization is important, but is it possible to have an organization with minimum red tape by setting goals and let team autonomously execute? Would that reduce management burden?

In an org of any non trivial size, no it won't work and it will increase management burden long term because it will damage things. As teams grow, supervision and communication get non linearly harder and less efficient. If you give some rogue the root keys and carte blanche, they may well get sh*t done but will also, almost certainly, cause a lot of problems for others.

Discipline, good hiring practice and clear goals and accountability at all levels are what's needed.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#106

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

sanderjd wrote: post #76
redleader9345 wrote: post #72

Warning ... cynical, pessimistic viewpoint coming. Here is a pattern that I've observed over a few jobs that I've held as a developer at different companies. Wondering if anyone has any similar experience. The first line manager (only manages individual contributors) exhibits these characteristics. 1.)He used to be a coder, but that was a long time ago. SQL hasn't changed, so that's the bit he's drawn to when he feel…

Without commenting on the specifics on your comment: what does this have to do with the OP's book? If anything, writing a book with ideas, experiences, and techniques aimed at helping people be better at this job is responsive to all the problems you identify.

It speaks to a real predicament that the OP is aiming to solve with techniques and ideas. BTW, If you are interested in techniques and ideas do us a favor and become a scientist.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#107

Post by JimboOmega »

jstanier wrote: post #75
JimboOmega wrote: post #73

Does the book cover how to get the position in the first place? I've read countless books (Like "The Managers Path" and "Managing Humans"), blog articles, etc, and tried many strategies, but it never seems to happen. Usually for the catch-22 reason of not having managing experience. I've even had past managers they had no worries about me having the skills or knowledge to do it... but it still doesn't happen.

The book assumes someone is interested in it or just started. I didn't cover landing the job, but that's a really interesting point. Personally, I got promoted from within at the beginning of my management journey. Have you been applying to external companies? I wonder if others on here have more experiences in that area that they'd like to share.

"Applying to external companies" as currently an IC looking for an EM role?

I have tried this on a limited level in the past, and either get no response or get told that I don't have experience (I have a few months with one direct report)

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#108

Post by swyx »

swebs wrote: post #69
swyx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think i am an under-performing developer. if you dont mind sharing some secret sauce... what are the first questions you think about asking to diagnose whats going on?

Are you under performing due to lack of competence, or lack of motivation?

probably a little of columns A and B. i guess we're all like that? (we as in underperforming devs)

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#109

Post by thewanisdown »

vi-mode wrote: post #91
burlesona wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000x less fun? That’s extremely subjective, and depends enormously on what you draw satisfaction from. Leading people can be a lot of fun if you genuinely care about the people you are leading and take joy from empowering and enabling them to grow and succeed.

Yes and no. You can move mountains with good teams, this is great and you will draw satisfaction from. But IDK if you had ever 100+ people in your reporting line for a longer time. Then you knew that it's everything BUT definitely not a lot of fun . It's super hard work and will push you and your mind dangerously to the limit.

It's a different mindset, but I still think it's fun. For me, the key with that size of a group was focusing on the development of the leaders under me. When I make sure they are set up for success, things go smoothly.

The hardest time in my life was trying to micromanage a large group. Once you let go, and focus on the bigger picture, it's quite fun. Challenging, for sure, but very fun.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#110

Post by [deleted] »

iamaelephant wrote: post #83
redleader9345 wrote: post #72

Warning ... cynical, pessimistic viewpoint coming. Here is a pattern that I've observed over a few jobs that I've held as a developer at different companies. Wondering if anyone has any similar experience. The first line manager (only manages individual contributors) exhibits these characteristics. 1.)He used to be a coder, but that was a long time ago. SQL hasn't changed, so that's the bit he's drawn to when he feel…

You need to work for better organisations with better people. Which you definitely will not be hired into without a major attitude adjustment.

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