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Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

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Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#61

Post by watwut »

save_ferris wrote: post #39
blowski wrote: post #21

I don't know whether it's in the book - perhaps it's in the " How to Win Friends and Influence People " chapter - but one thing I struggle with is communicating outwards and upwards. I tend to assume that everybody else in the company knows that my team works in the way it does because that's how you deliver software successfully. Often, this comes back to bite when I learn that other managers think the team should b…

> Often, this comes back to bite when I learn that other managers think the team should be managed differently. I’m going through this right now at my company, and it’s completely devastating our engineering org’s morale. I’ve never experienced anything like this.

How and why is other teams managers opinion devatating the team you are in? Are they trying to meddle or force changes?

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#63

Post by blowski »

jstanier wrote: post #27
blowski wrote: post #21

I don't know whether it's in the book - perhaps it's in the " How to Win Friends and Influence People " chapter - but one thing I struggle with is communicating outwards and upwards. I tend to assume that everybody else in the company knows that my team works in the way it does because that's how you deliver software successfully. Often, this comes back to bite when I learn that other managers think the team should b…

I totally agree on your final sentence there. There's a number of things in that chapter you mention, and there's also material on managing upwards earlier on in the book. As an example of something I personally struggle with: what's the best way to have the rest of the company know what all of our teams are working on without A) going into too much detail B) being obtuse C) opening ourselves up for miscommunication…

You really hit the nail on the head there. It's so hard to give the right people the right information at the right time.

I like the idea of the newsletter. Do you focus mostly on achievements, or discuss 'ways of working' as well?

I'm really looking forward to the book, by the way.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#65

Post by huherto »

swyx wrote: post #50
blowski wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grind of constantly learning the latest technologies eventually got boring, and now I really enjoy managing developers. For me personally, helping an unhappy or under-performing developer get out of their slump is a really rewarding experience. I don't enjoy long-winded, pointless meetings - but if you're organisation has so many of them, you'll get pulled into them anyway once you're senior enough.

i think i am an under-performing developer. if you dont mind sharing some secret sauce... what are the first questions you think about asking to diagnose whats going on?

I would look at three things.

- Do you have autonomy in your job ? You need to be able to do your job without having to ask for permission every five minutes. You should also have some freedom on how to do it.

- Do you feel you are getting better at your job ? Every day you need to have the feeling that you are becoming better at it. Is your job hard enough but not too hard. Too many unknowns may cause frustration. Too few unknowns make the jobs too easy and boring.

- Purpose - Do you feel that everyday you are making a difference? You need to feel that you are making somebody's life better.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#67

Post by supernova87a »

brianmcc wrote: post #32

If anyone is considering moving into engineering management, you'd do well to look not just at the how but the why . If it's for status/salary rather than the change in nature of the work be very careful about making the move. You need to really want to manage and develop people (with all the idiosyncracies that real human beings come with!), and to communicate, co-ordinate, and delegate for a living. Some will love…

Yes, junior people frequently make the incorrect assumption that entering management is a promotion (partly because we have made the mistake of unthinkingly treating/rewarding it as such). They are often incentivized to seek management roles as part of a "this must be my career path" because of the associated salary.

It is a different role, and not merely a coder who tells people what to do. It has a different skill set, and some people will fail at / only muddle through it just like learning a new language or tool.

If you don't like dealing with people's problems, enjoy solving the problem at a detailed level and being quiet and working things out on your own, then management may not be for you.

There are companies that reward talented individual contributors as much as good managers, but they are rare. Also I would say that an individual contributor needs to be quite good to match a mediocre manager's salary, unfortunately -- but that's how the hierarchy is generally set up.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#68

Post by jstanier »

circlefavshape wrote: post #66

> If anyone's at all interested ... pitch(ing) a publisher with their own book idea, then ... I'm more than happy to give you any advice Really? How do I contact you?

@jstanier on Twitter if that works for you.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#69

Post by swebs »

swyx wrote: post #50
blowski wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grind of constantly learning the latest technologies eventually got boring, and now I really enjoy managing developers. For me personally, helping an unhappy or under-performing developer get out of their slump is a really rewarding experience. I don't enjoy long-winded, pointless meetings - but if you're organisation has so many of them, you'll get pulled into them anyway once you're senior enough.

i think i am an under-performing developer. if you dont mind sharing some secret sauce... what are the first questions you think about asking to diagnose whats going on?

Are you under performing due to lack of competence, or lack of motivation?

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#70

Post by volkk »

supernova87a wrote: post #67
brianmcc wrote: post #32

If anyone is considering moving into engineering management, you'd do well to look not just at the how but the why . If it's for status/salary rather than the change in nature of the work be very careful about making the move. You need to really want to manage and develop people (with all the idiosyncracies that real human beings come with!), and to communicate, co-ordinate, and delegate for a living. Some will love…

Yes, junior people frequently make the incorrect assumption that entering management is a promotion (partly because we have made the mistake of unthinkingly treating/rewarding it as such). They are often incentivized to seek management roles as part of a "this must be my career path" because of the associated salary. It is a different role, and not merely a coder who tells people what to do. It has a different skill…

Realistically speaking though, manager is an upwards trajectory in the CS world. Most companies don't define the IC track well, and a staff engineer is usually a 10 year veteran whereas a manager path, even if you hate it with a passion is a quick way to get a really high salary with low years of experience. Even more salary once you become director and that's not out of the realm of normal with 5-7 years of exp. I know 1 staff engineer, and 0 principal engineers, whereas I know tons of directors/VPs. Clearly, the way to more money in the long run is the manager path even if you find it horrible.
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