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What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

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Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#41
It's a bit hard to understand without the background philosophical knowledge, but Schopenhauer's aesthetic ideas on music are quite beautiful. A concise, oversimplified version of his thought would be that lyric-less music brings us closer to direct reality, since it doesn't replicate any forms in nature.

Unlike all of the other arts, which express or copy the Ideas (the essential features of the phenomenal world), Schopenhauer affirmed that music expresses or copies the will qua thing in itself, bypassing the Ideas altogether.

Schopenhauer holds that the experience of “absolute” music (music that does not seek to imitate the phenomenal world and is unaccompanied by narrative or text), occurs in time, but does not involve any of the other cognitive conditions on experience. Thus, like the feeling of embodiment, Schopenhauer believes the experience of music brings us epistemically closer to the essence of the world as will—it is as direct an experience of the will qua thing in itself as is possible for a human being to have

Read this full article if you'd like to know more: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/schopenhauer-aesthetics

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#42
Quote:

Dreams can contain strange and altered realities. However dreams are never about the strangeness or the alteration of reality.

If people with bad intentions are chasing you in a dream, you don't start thinking about why your life changed so much that now you have people wanting to kill you. All you think about is what you need to do to prevent those people catching up with you and killing you, which might involve running, or attacking your attackers, or perhaps calling out for help.

Given that dreams are often seem very strange when we wake up and remember them, but don't "feel strange" when we are dreaming them, it is plausible to suppose that our sense of "strangeness" is actively suppressed when we are dreaming.

End quote.

This is correct. During REM dreaming the executive functions on the brain are shut off. Why is this?

We can remember some of our dreams, and in our dreams we behave. This means we get to examine our unconstrained behaviours and judge them for their suitability to the situation.

The situations our brains construct during REM dreams are formed in incredibly neurologically biased conditions. Norepinephrine levels, a stress related neurotransmitter, are 85% below base waking levels during REM dreaming (Norepinephrine levels spike after a stressful event, but it's 85% below resting levels!). And there is plenty of evidence to show, low Norepinephrine levels mean a relaxed mind.

Think of the fantasies that the brain creates during moments of fear when awake. Say you have a fear of flying, the fantasies all urge avoidance - 'the plane will crash', 'the wheels will fall off before we land', etc... That is how the brain builds fantasies when Norepinephrine levels are high. When they are low fantasies urge the opposite of avoidance - they urge action. You are being attacked -> you need to fight back. Someone is trying to steal your things -> stop them. Someone has upset you -> tell them.

So we find ourselves in situations in our dreams which demand action, and we get to see how we behave on a solely emotional level (because executive functions are off). If we are not behaving in accordance to what the action-demanding situation requires, then we have learnt something about a fear we have. Something present at an emotional level which is stopping us from taking useful action.

Correcting that is a matter of consciously breaking this pattern in your waking life. Taking action when you were previously scared to and discovering you are ok, and did not need to be scared.

From my experience working with dreams in therapy (mine and with others in theirs), good dream analysis acts as an incredibly astute method to diagnose unconscious anxieties.

I got very interested in dreams after their usefulness in my therapy, so wrote a paper on the above with 13 examples of dreams in (5 are mine if I remember correctly). The paper: https://psyarxiv.com/k6trz HN discussion of it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19143590

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#44

>Music, on the other hand, seems to be limited to the human species I'm not sure how you're defining music, but I would consider a bird's song to count. On one hand I don't believe music can be reduced to a mating display, but I'm skeptical that music has a biological root in processing memories/emotional response. Sure, it can stimulate memory/emotional processing, but so do most other social activities. Moreover, I…

Lucid dreamers were able to respond to stimuli while dreaming iirc

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#45

>Music, on the other hand, seems to be limited to the human species I'm not sure how you're defining music, but I would consider a bird's song to count. On one hand I don't believe music can be reduced to a mating display, but I'm skeptical that music has a biological root in processing memories/emotional response. Sure, it can stimulate memory/emotional processing, but so do most other social activities. Moreover, I…

If I remember correctly whales have been observed to “sing” as well. Given that sound is essentially vibration of a medium and given that noticing vibration in said medium will play a crucial role in the survival of most organisms moving in it, we can establish that some sort of “mediun-vibration-sensing” should develope anywhere in the universe given the organisms move in a medium that transmits sound waves.

This “hearing” will be connected with meaning by these organisms (e.g. loud and low frequency = big, strong and dangerous, scratchy noise + potential food). That means there is already (without music) a perceptual link between sound and emotion.

On top of that the natural harmonic series should be universal, which means that other intelligent life forms could derive joy from how sounds fit together harmonically. A certain level of intelligence will inevitably lead organisms to think a lot about the (potentially dangerous) sounds in their environment and given a certain level of organization they might decide to droen these unpleasant thoughts out with other louder sounds they make on purpose. And if these louder sounds serve a societal role they will inevitably use it to tell stories, emotions or make sense of their beeing in the world or just try to forget the things that happened in their lifes. Music.

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#46
post #45

>Music, on the other hand, seems to be limited to the human species I'm not sure how you're defining music, but I would consider a bird's song to count. On one hand I don't believe music can be reduced to a mating display, but I'm skeptical that music has a biological root in processing memories/emotional response. Sure, it can stimulate memory/emotional processing, but so do most other social activities. Moreover, I…

If I remember correctly whales have been observed to “sing” as well. Given that sound is essentially vibration of a medium and given that noticing vibration in said medium will play a crucial role in the survival of most organisms moving in it, we can establish that some sort of “mediun-vibration-sensing” should develope anywhere in the universe given the organisms move in a medium that transmits sound waves. This “h…

And wolves howl. My childhood friend played the trumpet and their dog always started howling with him.

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#47

A weird hypothesis is that a dream might not even be a story until you wake up—like a wave function collapse[1] of abstract brain activity. Freud wrote about a man being jolted awake by his headboard falling on his neck the very moment he had been guillotined in a dream, and I think most of us have examples. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse

I remember reading that people used to believe that your whole dream happened in the few seconds before you woke up. Would be interesting if that was actually close to the truth.

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#49

>Music, on the other hand, seems to be limited to the human species I'm not sure how you're defining music, but I would consider a bird's song to count. On one hand I don't believe music can be reduced to a mating display, but I'm skeptical that music has a biological root in processing memories/emotional response. Sure, it can stimulate memory/emotional processing, but so do most other social activities. Moreover, I…

Is bird song music or just a guy sat on a fence shouting at all the other guys to fuck off out of his yard?

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#50
Music purpose is to express and modulate emotions. We use it to soothe, psych up, woo, enrage, sadden and cheer each other, or ourselves. Music is an especially important tool for bonding with and caring for infants. To avoid stress full mind listen Music or Watch Free Online Movies so that mind gets relax. https://www.dealstoall.com/2019/10/WatchFreeOnlineMovies.htm...
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