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iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

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Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#331

Post by busymom0 »

jvzr wrote: post #288
jeffparsons wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason I still strongly prefer the look and feel of Android over iOS, but at this point my next phone will be an iPhone. Why? Because Google recently stepped up its notification spam in their official apps. They're using a mechanism that's supposed to exist to notify me of things _I_ want/need to know about urgently instead to advertise products and services to me that I have no interest in. It's tedious to…

Just a heads up: Apple in their guidelines tell developers not to do that, and yet they do send some notifications advertising their products and/or services sometimes (recently for Apple TV+). They also do not police developers' notifications, so some developers abuse it. Just an example: I love Slopes and its lone developer deserves all the praise, and yet a week ago I've received an unwarranted ad for the paid sub…

You can report it to Apple that the app is abusing notifications and give them a screenshot and they will action it. Before that, you can probably try reaching out to the developer with an email and an app review though.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#332

Post by 8fingerlouie »

afturner wrote: post #56
misiti3780 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where are you seeing the notifications ? I installed the update and just clicked "use location only while using app" for everything

They just magically start appearing after a while

And once they start they don't stop again, which is also kinda annoying. I wish there was some way to permanently allow it, and not be bugged by the alerts again. Something the app cannot set by itself, but i can set.

I have some apps, i.e. Unifi Protect, that requires access to background location to send activity alerts when nobody is home, and i frequently get alerts that this app has used my location in the background, and despite selecting "allow always" it will pop up again in a couple of weeks.

To further add insult to injury, i appear to have "trained" my wife so well that she defaults to selecting "deny" for apps she doesn't use, and "only when in use" to everything else, which then results in a flurry of motion alerts :)

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#333

Post by thu2111 »

1propionyl wrote: post #293
_jal wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Google originally planned it this way, but their release strategy gives them an interesting gradient of users that I think benefits them. (This is entirely off the cuff, I may be sticking my foot in my mouth.) Early adapters, who are more likely to engage with the bigger questions raised by tech, are likely to use new devices with the latest revision of what Google thinks you should share with the adver…

Yes, you're right. The inference you haven't made yet is what the proportions of the users in the "early adopter" and "general user" categories are in countries that are NOT the United States or Europe. Hint: most of Google's Android users aren't in the US or Europe at all. Instead they're in countries where there are much more pressing social, political, or economic issues for governments to address that easily side…

I agree with everything you wrote, but note that Apple's attempt to brand itself as privacy aware is self serving and works only because privacy is such a vague topic the population doesn't really know how to reason precisely about it. Their affluent users don't actually care more than anyone else, but it lets them virtue signal to their friends a little bit without having to make any actual sacrifices of features or usability.

Take the end to end encryption in iMessage. It doesn't mean anything: like all such schemes Apple can push a new key to your friends phones, or a software update that selectively disables it, at any time they want. There may already be back doors there nobody knows about. The user could never detect this nor do anything about it even if they did. But Apple use it to claim they care about privacy.

On advertising, Apple only decided advertising was bad and privacy invasive after their own iAd initiative flopped completely. When Jobs thought Apple could compete directly with Google on advertising he was all about how beautiful and usable Apple ads would be.

Apple's all about privacy except they want you to upload everything to their cloud. They're all about privacy except they have root on all your devices. Note: this is unlike Android, where the root keys for the devices are owned by OEMs who sandbox and review/audit Google's software, and the OEMs in turn don't have access to the Google cloud data. Some Android devices don't even use Google services at all.

For Apple privacy is a marketing angle. It can be seen in the way the latest iOS/Android versions don't differ from each other in any significant respects.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#335

Post by cameldrv »

thu2111 wrote: post #325
Accacin wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe iOS already has this.. But it's the developer that needs to say they'll use this type of location data - which of course they won't.

Android has had that distinction since version 1, actually. https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/android-sdk... Some apps do use coarse permission (which maps roughly to wifi/cell tower location).

Yes, but I can't say "sorry, you're only getting coarse location" to an app that wants precise location permission.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#336

Post by mbel »

adrianN wrote: post #324
2ion wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is almost irrelevant for existing users what has been added in Android version n + 1, because they will never get updated to n + 1. The joys of the Android vendor ecosystem. Even very expensive phones like Sony get about 1 (mid) or 2 (high-end) major upgrade only, and that's still not guaranteed. Project Treble did nothing to fix this.

We should just force companies by law to provide software patches for anything that can connect to a network for at least five years, better ten, or be liable for security problems.

Then they will provide something. In the best case regular security updates, I can imagine any reasonable way to force them to add new features during support period.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#337

Post by kmnns »

jeffparsons wrote: post #254
Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

For some reason I still strongly prefer the look and feel of Android over iOS, but at this point my next phone will be an iPhone. Why? Because Google recently stepped up its notification spam in their official apps. They're using a mechanism that's supposed to exist to notify me of things _I_ want/need to know about urgently instead to advertise products and services to me that I have no interest in. It's tedious to…

I use Lineage OS + microg with no Google apps on a compatible phone and I experience zero Google. Else, I seem to be able to enjoy Android to its fullest, using the Aurora app store.

Lineage OS might be a viable alternative for people who prefer Android but disdain Google.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#338

Post by alkonaut »

thu2111 wrote: post #328
dangus wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Android phones before P are vulnerable to a flaw that allows background camera use: https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/7/17091104/android-p-prevent... That might actually be the majority of active Android devices if you look at the marketshare statistics. I think it's actually somewhat embarrassing that the tech industry hasn't been able to provide a low cost, reasonably secure smartphone platform that can be used f…

That's not "vulnerable to a flaw". You make it sound like there's some sort of security bug or buffer overflow in the OS that lets any app turn on the camera at will. The "flaw" is that apps you explicitly gave permission to use the camera, can use it! All they've done in P is notice that they can tighten the permission even further so the app has to be in the foreground to use that permission. The lack of this wasn'…

The parent didn't say "vulnerability" in the "security vulnerability" sense. They sad "vulnerable to a flaw", i.e. there is a design flaw and those versions have that design flaw - meaning users of it are vulnerable to apps taking advantage of that design flaw. I'd say it leaves users "vulnerable", and it's definitely a "flaw". It may be an API working as intended - but that doesn't mean it isn't flawed to the point of being embarrassing.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#339

Post by lorenzhs »

jayd16 wrote: post #291
nomel wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, you've covered 0.1% of the Android user base.

Are we talking about things we like, use and do, or are we in a pissing contest about who's team is winning?

We're talking about privacy protections for all users, not just HN users. The change in iOS 13 doesn't allow you to do anything that wasn't possible before, the settings have existed for years. It "just" periodically asks if you really want to let that app access your location in the background all the time, showing you a map where it did so in the last few days. And according to the article, people are saying "no" a lot.

Users will disallow tracking if prompted. The average user won't go out of their way to spoof location data, though.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#340

Post by lazyjones »

Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

Google could offer an identical feature while selling location data (transmitted by the OS) to customers themselves.
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