A weird hypothesis is that a dream might not even be a story until you wake up—like a wave function collapse[1] of abstract brain activity. Freud wrote about a man being jolted awake by his headboard falling on his neck the very moment he had been guillotined in a dream, and I think most of us have examples.
What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
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Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
#22Interesting. I don't dream and music has no emotional response for me. I wonder if they are related?
That's an interesting case. Can you feel fear, anger or excitement when awake? Dreaming and emotions are "done" by a very specific part of us that connects, in some sense, mind with body.
Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
#23Connection between music and dreams is a very deep rabbit hole from which there is no return (in a good sense). This article does a good job at bringing attention to the topic, although ideas presented there are naive.
Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
#24This post has it all wrong.
Music is the shadow of spoken language syntax, ornamented with mathematically recursive patterns, enigmatic suggestions, and all of the other various cerebral plumage humans are attractive to, all for one simple evolved purpose: “you gotta get down with the get down.” ;)
Dreaming has much more to do with core memory processes which remain a deep mystery. Nobody has put forward even a plausible explanation of how memory actually works on a physical level.
Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
#25Paul McCartney said Yesterday came to him in a dream. I think about this a lot in that there is something the unconscious mind seems to unlock.
Yes. Except in his dream the lyrics were
"Scrambled eggs, Oh my darling you've got lovely legs..."
Once I learned that my enjoyment of the original was greatly enhanced.
Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
#26A weird hypothesis is that a dream might not even be a story until you wake up—like a wave function collapse[1] of abstract brain activity. Freud wrote about a man being jolted awake by his headboard falling on his neck the very moment he had been guillotined in a dream, and I think most of us have examples. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse
This makes a lot of sense for deeper sleep where dreams are fragments of thoughts within a barely coherent mind but little sense in REM sleep where people have shown to be aware by doing preestablished eyemovements. There is a lot of indication that people are aware during dreams that occur in REM sleep (eye movement is unrestricted by the brain stem blocking signals so eyes move as if the person is doing things). Point being that if a person is aware and can do tasks and communicate with regular timing then the dream cannot take place at the moment of waking up.
Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
#27I like to think music is just tickling peoples' eardrums. Musicians really are just vibrating the air, creating sound waves, thus music is inherently ephemeral. Written and recorded works utilize our memory and psychology to take us on a journey through time, telling us a story, conveying message and meaning through many moments of ear tickling.
Music is just tickling peoples' eardrums in the same way that looking at your newborn baby is just indirect light illuminating your retina.
Tickling is surprisingly complex and specific, random noise like wind blowing on skin will not tickle you, you cant tickle yourself, you clothes dont tickle you, etc. How is it a bad metaphor for music? Id even go as far as calling music a form of humanity pleasuring itself not as in the act of emulating sex but emulating the most interesting parts of a language
Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
#28From https://whatismusic.info/blog/HypothesisMusicLetsUsPracticeH... : > Now let us suppose that the person enjoys listening to music. > > Music enables the person to feel very strong emotions that lie outside the range of their normal everyday emotions. > > Music lets a person feel these emotions, almost, but not quite, as if those emotions were real. I’m quite puzzled by these statements. I enjoy listening to some…
Music produces sophisticated colorful shapes that aren't visualizeable, yet visible to our mind, so it sees the shapes, appreciates their complexity and order and creates emotions. Classical compositions produce exceptionally complex structures that can be appreciated only by a few.
Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
#29This post has it all wrong. Music is the shadow of spoken language syntax, ornamented with mathematically recursive patterns, enigmatic suggestions, and all of the other various cerebral plumage humans are attractive to, all for one simple evolved purpose: “you gotta get down with the get down.” ;) Dreaming has much more to do with core memory processes which remain a deep mystery. Nobody has put forward even a plaus…
I find your assessment of music to be (not personally, but conceptually) insultingly reductive.
(Paraphrasing) "It's just math, linguistics and biology" is just about the least convincing reductivist statement possible to make. The idea that music simply exists to "get down" is frankly laughable.
To give an example, I think many people who listen to music a lot would agree that it somehow interacts with memory in a subtle yet profound way.
I may not be able to remember the exact details of a certain experience precisely, but if I happened to be listening to some music then, and I listen to it again now, it often recalls a memory of emotion I wouldn't otherwise have access to.
Further: the experience of listening to song you've listened to many times over many years tends to accumulate and integrate associations, like a perpetual stew. The experience of listening to a song you've known and listened to for many years is about as close to the experience of dreaming as I've found in waking life.
Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming
#30This post has it all wrong. Music is the shadow of spoken language syntax, ornamented with mathematically recursive patterns, enigmatic suggestions, and all of the other various cerebral plumage humans are attractive to, all for one simple evolved purpose: “you gotta get down with the get down.” ;) Dreaming has much more to do with core memory processes which remain a deep mystery. Nobody has put forward even a plaus…
I find your assessment of music to be (not personally, but conceptually) insultingly reductive. (Paraphrasing) "It's just math, linguistics and biology" is just about the least convincing reductivist statement possible to make. The idea that music simply exists to "get down" is frankly laughable. To give an example, I think many people who listen to music a lot would agree that it somehow interacts with memory in a s…
I’m sure the female peacock would say the same thing about her experience of seeing those fancy feathers for the first time.