iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#181

Post by surround » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:09 AM UTC

privateSFacct wrote: post #143

surround wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s two things about iOS that bothers me, privacy wise: - Apple still makes money off of ads, creating a conflict of interest. By default, users have a unique tracking/advertising ID attached to their phone. - iOS is extremely restrictive, making certain privacy adjustments impossible.

"By default, users have a unique tracking/advertising ID attached to their phone." Google has the same thing, and with apple if you care you can opt out. "When Limit Ad Tracking is enabled on iOS 10 or later, the Advertising Identifier is replaced with a non-unique value of all zeros to prevent the serving of targeted ads. It is automatically reset to a new random identifier if you disable Limit Ad Tracking." So this…

> Generally you can't get unremovable malaware installed on an iphone.

Apple uses FUD to justify restricting users from doing what they want with their phone.

> If this type of privacy restriction makes you choose android privacy invading phones - go for android.

This is not what I’m talking about. I want to be able to use tools such as NetGuard to enhance privacy, which iOS doesn’t allow.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#182

Post by aabhay » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #176

Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

"Google is terrible, also Google is our default search engine on safari" - Apple

Google pays very dearly for that, btw

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#183

Post by ses1984 » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:14 AM UTC

privateSFacct wrote: post #143

surround wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s two things about iOS that bothers me, privacy wise: - Apple still makes money off of ads, creating a conflict of interest. By default, users have a unique tracking/advertising ID attached to their phone. - iOS is extremely restrictive, making certain privacy adjustments impossible.

"By default, users have a unique tracking/advertising ID attached to their phone." Google has the same thing, and with apple if you care you can opt out. "When Limit Ad Tracking is enabled on iOS 10 or later, the Advertising Identifier is replaced with a non-unique value of all zeros to prevent the serving of targeted ads. It is automatically reset to a new random identifier if you disable Limit Ad Tracking." So this…

The phone id is only one way you are tracked.

You are being tracked in multiple places, at the ISP level, at the geo level, cookie and account level, and I don't know where else.

Being able to reset your phone ID is insufficient given all the other ways you can be tracked.

With Apple, maybe they're the lesser of two evils, but there is still a lot of room they could improve if they really wanted.

The aforementioned iOS restrictions block you from being able to implement all the available privacy tools.

Being able to implement all those privacy controls is a double edged sword. There's a certain amount of security you get from not ever having root access. It depends on your threat model.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#184

Post by heavyset_go » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:14 AM UTC

chewz wrote: post #160

jadbox wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only do I like having the ability to limit GPS per app, but I can also disable background data and enforce 'energy saver mode' (aka make background tasks infrequent) on an individual app basis.

We can also easily mock GPS on Android and there are apps for that.

Apps can detect this, and some apps will ban you if you mock your location.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#185

Post by fastball » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:14 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #134

ogre_codes wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charge for search? For maps? Gmail? How's that going to work when you get it for free from everyone else? The entire reason Google's products are as big/ successful as they are is because they are free. If they started charging for Gmail, the rush to the exits would be instant. If Google started charging for Android OEMs would switch to AOSP, China, Amazon, and Microsoft would ensure a supply of free Android versions…

This is a false dichotomy. It's not free-for-all vs paid-for-all. Google charges for their services as well. Gsuite is "paid Gmail" among other things. GCP gives you access to extra APIs which are "paid google maps". They can move that balance where needed without causing a mass exodus.

You're comparing B2C with B2B offerings. The same concepts do not apply to the two categories.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#186

Post by ksec » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

Not only that, Google paid roughly $10/ user per year to Apple just to remain the default search engine on all Apple OS. That is roughly $10B per year into their Services revenue.

All while Apple actively disarming tracking and Googles's revenue.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#187

Post by libria » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #113

jzvxkxbxjx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ If apple allowed easily sideloading apps I would consider moving over.” This was the reason I was an android guy until my wife told me to just get a phone that works. And you know what? Not letting you side load is a feature. When you see it like that, you care a lot less about your phone, and just appreciate that it works and that you can trust it as your more intimate possessions .

> This was the reason I was an android guy until my wife told me to just get a phone that works. I have not heard anything that suggests Android phones work less than iPhones. That's certainly not been my experience, anyway. I've been using Android phones for 10 years now and they've always worked just fine. And I can sideload things, which I still do, and wouldn't want to give up. > Not letting you side load is a fe…

Android user 8 years, iPhone 6 months.

> > Not letting you side load is a feature.

> I absolutely do not see it that way.

This is the key. Not having this option frees me from having to worry about the whole issue which is liberating. Either it's in the AppStore or it's not and I move on. With Android I spent days/weeks following whispers/rumors of such an app and trying different alternatives, rooting, etc.

It depends on how much patience and control you want. I had time for that years ago, but not now. iPhone gives you a lot less customization and control, but I spend a lot less time managing the phone and one-off issues, weird needs-fixing cases, phone-vendor specific things.

Not trying to sell you on iPhone, just saying I thought the same as you, but understand both sides of it now.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#188

Post by pininja » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

otachack wrote: post #137

Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

Sure, but Google/Android has added fine grain GPS permissions in Android 10+ so we have the option to say "just track when using app" instead of "no" or "all the time". The problem, now, is rolling it out due to fragmentation.

This is great, and everything you’ve said is true.

But the change in iOS13 is the regularly occurring pop up alert to prompt users to pick a lower permission for apps they don’t use often that are also tracking location.

As others have mentioned, iOS has had the fine grain permission for a while. What’s new is the regular prompt.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#189

Post by quotemstr » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

jzvxkxbxjx wrote: post #95

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never owned an ios device in my life and strongly avoid them but this makes drift slightly over considering one. If apple allowed easily sideloading apps I would consider moving over.

“ If apple allowed easily sideloading apps I would consider moving over.” This was the reason I was an android guy until my wife told me to just get a phone that works. And you know what? Not letting you side load is a feature. When you see it like that, you care a lot less about your phone, and just appreciate that it works and that you can trust it as your more intimate possessions .

Would you feel the same way about someone planning all your meals? Where you work? Where you sleep? It's beneficial to resist control even when that control seems beneficial at first. In the end, only you have your own best interest in mind.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#190

Post by shdh » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

otachack wrote: post #137

Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

Sure, but Google/Android has added fine grain GPS permissions in Android 10+ so we have the option to say "just track when using app" instead of "no" or "all the time". The problem, now, is rolling it out due to fragmentation.

Average users won't disable tracking unless prompted.