Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals • Hacker News Board

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#141

Post by Bartweiss » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 11:52 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #61

> not smoking It's a pet peeve of mine, but I really wish smoking weren't presented as a binary choice in medicine and science. I know a lot of people who smoke socially but only socially. They probably have an average of somewhere between half to maybe five or six cigarettes a week -- less than one a day, universally. (For comparison, it's believed that addiction only starts to kick it at around 5 cigarettes per day…

I think the reported intended to differentiate "drinking in moderation" from "not smoking" because the drinking results are actually ambiguous at low doses. There are a lot of possible confounders, but a few drinks a week actually correlate with better outcomes. As far these findings, and all others I've seen, smoking is strictly negative.

But jumping from "never" to "1-14 per day" does seem like a pretty massive gap, and one that makes these results harder to use for a lot of people. I've known plenty of social smokers, as well as people who almost quit smoking but didn't kick a final 1/day habit. It certainly seems useful for a 10/day smoker to know what their risk profile would be like at 1/day or lower, which isn't available here.

(I wonder if it's a data limitation here, though? Most of the social smokers are I know are 20-somethings who smoke when they're drinking with friends, or something similar. These cohort studies were on middle aged doctors and nurses, so there may not be many people falling between "nonsmoker" and "addicted"?)

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#142

Post by mrr54 » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 11:56 PM UTC

newnewpdro wrote: post #106

giardini wrote: post #71

Leaving sex out of the equation was an unfortunate oversight. STDs cause a lot of grief and arguably as much or more damage than diet. AIDS speaks for itself; herpes is implicated in Alzheimer's, heart disease and other ailments and is just a general curse without the modern antivirals (although many persons are naturally immune); gonorrhea and syphilis continue to mutate to new drug-resistant forms.

Not to mention having children, which if my experience is any indication is the #1 reason parents use for being overweight and unfit, not having time and/or energy to properly care for themselves now that they have kids.

Ironically the best way to care for their kids is to set a good example by eating and living healthily.

When was the last time you saw healthy parents with an obese child or obese parents with a healthy child vs. how often you see healthy parents with healthy children and obese parents with obese children?

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#143

Post by jklein11 » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 11:59 PM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #77

crazygringo wrote: post #61

> not smoking It's a pet peeve of mine, but I really wish smoking weren't presented as a binary choice in medicine and science. I know a lot of people who smoke socially but only socially. They probably have an average of somewhere between half to maybe five or six cigarettes a week -- less than one a day, universally. (For comparison, it's believed that addiction only starts to kick it at around 5 cigarettes per day…

Part of this is the cultural failure of western medicine to recognize all drugs as sacraments. It's also a failure of justice systems to ban discrimination based on drug use. So for example, I wrote that I was a smoker once on an insurance application (at the time as a 2-3 per day, 1 pack per week social smoker) and my insurance went up almost $100 per month. But the risk of not being truthful would be possible denie…

I have to disagree with you here. Even social smoking puts you at a higher risk for developing certain diseases than non-smokers. If insurance companies didn’t charge smokers $100 then they would charge everyone $50. That certainly doesn’t seem fair.

I’m also having a hard time with the idea that insurance companies are using this policy as a way to get out of paying future claims. Is it really possible to prove that a condition is due to smoking? Also any time I’ve had to fill out that information on an insurance form and I’ve only ever seen it ask if I am currently a smoker. What’s to say I wasn’t a smoker before I was covered by that insurance company?

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#144

Post by mrr54 » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 12:03 AM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #77

crazygringo wrote: post #61

> not smoking It's a pet peeve of mine, but I really wish smoking weren't presented as a binary choice in medicine and science. I know a lot of people who smoke socially but only socially. They probably have an average of somewhere between half to maybe five or six cigarettes a week -- less than one a day, universally. (For comparison, it's believed that addiction only starts to kick it at around 5 cigarettes per day…

Part of this is the cultural failure of western medicine to recognize all drugs as sacraments. It's also a failure of justice systems to ban discrimination based on drug use. So for example, I wrote that I was a smoker once on an insurance application (at the time as a 2-3 per day, 1 pack per week social smoker) and my insurance went up almost $100 per month. But the risk of not being truthful would be possible denie…

I find this (seemingly uniquely American) idea that it's wrong to discriminate in insurance quite strange. I'd love to understand your thought process behind it.

The whole point of insurance, as I see it, is that you pay based on your risk. Of course whether you smoke changes your risk of having health issues! Of course whether you're rich or poor, or male or female, affects your health risks.

For example, it's no surprise to me that my car insurance premiums are more expensive than my sister's, even though she's a year younger than me. Young men are much much more likely to be involved in car accidents than young women. But I've seen many Americans claiming this should be considered illegal discrimination. Isn't this discrimination the whole point of insurance?

The problem isn't that they factor in whether you smoke. The problem is that it's binary. You should find an insurance company that will let you specify how much you smoke. The insurance company should be delighted with that information: it allows them to model your risk more accurately and offer you more competitive prices!

This isn't 'corporate control over our liberty and justice' and it certainly isn't 'oppression'.

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#145

Post by DenisM » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 12:03 AM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #124

DenisM wrote: post #83

> drinking alcohol only in moderation (defined in this study as just under 2 units for women and 4 units for men daily) This part Of “stay healthy” advice has always puzzled me - it looks like full blown alcoholism. Am I way off?

Is alcoholism not actual dependency on alcohol? As in not being able to leave it from one day to the next? If people drink 15 beers/day it is unhealthy but if they can quit tomorrow for months (or ever), it is not alcoholism right? Many people know it's unhealthy to consume enormous amounts during december (I know plenty who do a few bottles of wine per day per person) and then just quit 2nd of January. As far as I c…

Ok, so it doesn't apply to your friends then? I am talking about daily drinking - the topic article promulgates it as "healthy".

Someone who "could stop drinking any time" and yet drinks every day year-round is de-facto addicted - among all the possible things they could do in the evening they always chose to do the same exact thing. Many addicts are high-functioning, but they are still addicts.

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#146

Post by austingulati » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 12:25 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #145

tluyben2 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is alcoholism not actual dependency on alcohol? As in not being able to leave it from one day to the next? If people drink 15 beers/day it is unhealthy but if they can quit tomorrow for months (or ever), it is not alcoholism right? Many people know it's unhealthy to consume enormous amounts during december (I know plenty who do a few bottles of wine per day per person) and then just quit 2nd of January. As far as I c…

Ok, so it doesn't apply to your friends then? I am talking about daily drinking - the topic article promulgates it as "healthy". Someone who "could stop drinking any time" and yet drinks every day year-round is de-facto addicted - among all the possible things they could do in the evening they always chose to do the same exact thing. Many addicts are high-functioning, but they are still addicts.

FWIW the rest of the recommendation by the NIAAA (National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism) is no more than 14 drinks per week for men and 7 drinks per week for women. So, they are not advising that 4 drinks per day every day for a week is safe.

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#147

Post by HuShifang » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 12:39 AM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #136

odonnellryan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But go vegan. It's easy!

I don't expect anyone to rehash the usual debates over this, but I have a question I've never found answered convincingly... How the heck do vegans eat high-protein diets? I don't mean "get enough protein to avoid deficiency", there are lots of recipes for that. But practically every vegan food I see described as "high protein" is well under 1/3 protein, which is a pretty unremarkable target if you want to build musc…

I think the keys are 1) don't be soy-phobic (eat tofu/tempeh, yes, but also soy milk -- esp. the fortified, unsweetened kinds, they demolish most other vegan milks nutritionally), 2) eat lots of pulses (so peanuts, lentils, beans, peas, chickpeas, and the like), 3) eat nuts and nut butters, and 4) choose high protein grains (e.g. oatmeal, whole wheat breads with seeds, whole grain pastas, etc). It all adds up -- I actually found I was getting something like 50% over my recommended protein intake without thinking about it.

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#148

Post by laurencerowe » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 12:52 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #53

laurencerowe wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a cultural UK/US difference which I've noticed moving to the US. In the UK a glass of wine with food every night would be seen as part of a healthy mediterranean diet and health advice on alcohol was refocussed to discourage binge drinking, emphasizing daily rather than weekly consumption limits. In the US daily drinking seems to be seen as bad (perhaps a legacy of prohibition?) while binge drinking…

> In the UK a glass of wine with food every night would be seen as part of a healthy mediterranean diet and health advice on alcohol was refocussed to discourage binge drinking, I don't understand what you mean. Public Health advice on alcohol in the UK has been pretty consistent for many years. There are 3 changes: the limits for men went from 21 units a week to 14 units a week; the advice to pregnant women to avoid…

It must have been the 1995 change:

> The most significant change to the Government guidelines was the move from weekly limits to daily limits.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmsc...

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#149

Post by crazygringo » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 1:30 AM UTC

umvi wrote: post #72

crazygringo wrote: post #61

> not smoking It's a pet peeve of mine, but I really wish smoking weren't presented as a binary choice in medicine and science. I know a lot of people who smoke socially but only socially. They probably have an average of somewhere between half to maybe five or six cigarettes a week -- less than one a day, universally. (For comparison, it's believed that addiction only starts to kick it at around 5 cigarettes per day…

From a public health standpoint it sounds like your pet peeve is that people don't tolerate "smoking in moderation".

Not at all.

It's that if light smokers self-identify as smokers in research, then it can mask the greater damage done in heavy smokers.

While if light smokers self-identify as non-smokers, it may reduce the overall difference between true non-smokers and heavy smokers.

Either way, it leads to the same kind of dangerous misinterpretation of data you'd have if there were only two categories "never drink" and "blackout drunk nightly".

Re: Healthy habits add up to 10 disease-free years to your life, study reveals

#150

Post by Dumblydorr » Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 1:37 AM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #61

> not smoking It's a pet peeve of mine, but I really wish smoking weren't presented as a binary choice in medicine and science. I know a lot of people who smoke socially but only socially. They probably have an average of somewhere between half to maybe five or six cigarettes a week -- less than one a day, universally. (For comparison, it's believed that addiction only starts to kick it at around 5 cigarettes per day…

Studies already do that, it's called pack-years. If your friends do 1/12 a pack per day for 12 years, that'd mean 1 pack year of smoking.

I'm analyzing data for an epidemiological study now, we have such a binary smoking status indicator that you critique. Our issue is the data source has immense complexity, 3500 plain text entries on smoking status questions, it would take weeks of painstaking effort to develop the measure you speak of...whereas the current measure took us a morning to implement as someone had already done the legwork for 0/1 smoking or not.