Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware • Hacker News Board

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#151

Post by tartoran » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #66

quadrifoliate wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got a moto because of this. It has _almost_ no bloatware. LinkedIn, DropBoxNativeClient, and a few other apps I don't use cannot be uninstalled. Sorry, but WTF kind of world are we living in where a terrible professional network app being permanently stuck to your phone is regarded as almost no bloatware? I'm not disagreeing with your statement that Moto phones are low in bloatware; just that if it's this bad for…

I've become disenchanted with the whole industry. I don't even trust Google phones or Android One to be what I want in a phone. So I've reduced to the lowest common denominator in how to solve this problem: I've stopped caring. My phone is no-longer a highly customized piece of tech I'm glued to. It's pretty much default settings with a handful of extra apps installed. And to be honest, I kind of like it. I'm hoping…

Get a flip phone, your habits will quickly change.

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#152

Post by jfengel » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

at-fates-hands wrote: post #137

wpietri wrote: post #116

Does anybody understand the economic point of making apps nonremovable? From the point of view of a vendor paying for access, presumably their goal is to spark interest and shift default choices. So I get why LinkedIn would pay to be on the phone when it leaves the factory. But if somebody doesn't want it, what do they gain by preventing removal? To me it seems kinda like DRM: I'm sure some executives get woodies at…

The interesting thing I always found with Windows phones was how easy it was to remove any and all bloatware on their phones. Don't the One Plus and Android One phones come pretty clean with only a few Google apps on them?

Yeah, and they start in the $300+ range. The others are paid for unremovable bloatware, which lets them come in at a lower price point.

The Xiaomi Android One line does manage to price in the $150 range without bloatware, and I'm not sure how.

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#153

Post by eitland » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #93

kwanbix wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have Android One today.

My Android One phone has xiaomi apps installed on the system partition. IIRC, the google play edition phones did not have any third-party apps.

My Nokia Android One had only a support app (visibly) installed.

It was still slow and updates took longer than I wanted to arrive.

I bought the cheapest new iPhone I could get last black Friday (around $600) and for the first time since my Galaxy SII in 2011 I got a phone that I have actually enjoyed.

FTR, phones I have not enjoyed:

- Samsung SIII (two, one was terrible, probably a defect part, luckily it bricked itself so I got a replacement, the second wasn't terriblę just disappointing),

- Note (at least one, can't say for sure which),

- Sony Z3 (screen detached from body - this might be my fault for disconnecting the charger half asleep many times, but more importantly installed Amazon adware during Android upgrade),

- Samsungs S7 Edge (slow, microlag, generally disappointing)

- and finally Nokia 6.1 Android One (slow, updates took long time to arrive even if in was Android One certified, spyware concerns - I'm not sure if mine was affected.)

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#154

Post by boutad » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #131

farisjarrah wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, Google and Motorola branded phones most certainly DO come with bloatware. The Google app is not necessary for the phone's functionality(this is, if you don't use google assistant) and I can not uninstall it from my Pixel 2. This is true for many Google apps that Google would have you believe is necessary for the functionality of the phone. These are all the google apps that came preinstalled on my phone t…

That's your opinion, but most users want a phone that comes with reasonable apps that makes it easy for them to do what they want. I hope you see this is not black and white, there is a grey area here where apps are bloatware for some people but legitimate useful for some people. To take Chrome for example, for Google to ship an Android phone without what they consider the best browser for the platform would be borde…

I think most people would be fine with them shipping them, at least on their own devices, so long it can be fully removed (not disabled) by the end user.

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#155

Post by ehsankia » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #131

farisjarrah wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, Google and Motorola branded phones most certainly DO come with bloatware. The Google app is not necessary for the phone's functionality(this is, if you don't use google assistant) and I can not uninstall it from my Pixel 2. This is true for many Google apps that Google would have you believe is necessary for the functionality of the phone. These are all the google apps that came preinstalled on my phone t…

That's your opinion, but most users want a phone that comes with reasonable apps that makes it easy for them to do what they want. I hope you see this is not black and white, there is a grey area here where apps are bloatware for some people but legitimate useful for some people. To take Chrome for example, for Google to ship an Android phone without what they consider the best browser for the platform would be borde…

I don't know why you're downvoted. If I, as an average consumer, bought a phone that didn't come with a browser, maps and music software, I'd think there was something wrong with it and would return it.

There may be an argument to make about allowing the user to pick their browser during onboarding, but calling the browser "bloatware" is completely ridiculous. You may not want Chrome, but 99% of people buying a Pixel are perfectly happy with having it bundled, so by definition, it's not bloatware. You can't just redefine "bloatware" to be apps you don't like.

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#156

Post by ehsankia » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:52 PM UTC

noisem4ker wrote: post #150

true_religion wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think calling Chrome bloatware is a bit much. Is Safari bloateare on an iPhone? Is the Play store bloatware? How would you even get anything on your phone the first time without the Play store or Chrome being installed?

Android isn't intrinsically tied to Google, unlike iOS is to Apple. Once upon a time, Android had its own, neutral Browser app. It was then replaced with Google Chrome, just like Email was replaced with Gmail. A pointless branding exercise in my opinion.

> Android isn't intrinsically tied to Google

Except Google spends billions in both engineering and infrastructure to develop, test and maintain it. Including those apps is part of how they fund said development.

But these days, people expect everything to be completely free and tech companies to do things out of the goodness of their heart for no financial benefit.

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#157

Post by cptskippy » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:53 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #116

Does anybody understand the economic point of making apps nonremovable? From the point of view of a vendor paying for access, presumably their goal is to spark interest and shift default choices. So I get why LinkedIn would pay to be on the phone when it leaves the factory. But if somebody doesn't want it, what do they gain by preventing removal? To me it seems kinda like DRM: I'm sure some executives get woodies at…

> Does anybody understand the economic point of making apps nonremovable?

It wouldn't surprise me if there were some profit sharing or kickbacks going on as a result of the surveillance. LinkedIn has an ad network with a Mobile focus. They better they can track you, the more valuable you are to them.

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#158

Post by boutad » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:53 PM UTC

owenwil wrote: post #35

Google actually had a program that addressed this head-on a few years back, where it retailed 'Google Play Edition' versions of flagship phones like the Galaxy 7, updated directly from Google, with their own factory image and no bloatware. For whatever reason, they killed the program without it really going far or being marketed well, which was a real shame: https://www.xda-developers.com/discontinued-a-look-at-googl…

and ~~no~~ Google's bloatware. Google Play Music, Google Play Books, Google Play Games, Chrome, Gmail, etc.

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#159

Post by ehsankia » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

ketzu wrote: post #126

hadrien01 wrote: post #48

Most of the bloatware comes from Google itself: on my Samsung Phone I have Google Chrome, multiple Google Play stores, Google Keep, Google Photos (sends your photos to the Google cloud), Google Drive, Google office apps, etc. I've never wanted all those apps, I don't even have a Google account...

Isn't it even the case that google forces other OEMs to bundle all their apps if they want to include the play store?

That's how they fund Android development. The other alternative is having OEMs pay a small fee per device, which is what they ended up doing in Europe.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/16/17984074/google-eu-andro...

Re: Google pushed to take action against Android bloatware

#160

Post by goguy » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

jfengel wrote: post #152

at-fates-hands wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing I always found with Windows phones was how easy it was to remove any and all bloatware on their phones. Don't the One Plus and Android One phones come pretty clean with only a few Google apps on them?

Yeah, and they start in the $300+ range. The others are paid for unremovable bloatware, which lets them come in at a lower price point. The Xiaomi Android One line does manage to price in the $150 range without bloatware, and I'm not sure how.

Chinese spyware that doesn't even show as an "app"