Language Learning with Netflix extension • Hacker News Board

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#101

Post by aplaice » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 1:43 PM UTC

z_open wrote: post #42

This is nice, but all I really want is the ability to nicely see both English and German subtitles simultaneously. This is overkill for me and requires me to use chrome. Is anyone aware of a better solution for me?

I second the mpv-based solution, as suggested by st1ck. If you prefer vlc, it now (as of the beta 4.0.0)[0] also supports dual/secondary subtitles. Making it work seems a bit fiddly: first you need to turn them on (under Tools > Preferences > Subtitles/OSD > Dual Subtitles (at the very bottom) > Align — change to anything but unset, and possibly also adjust offset). Then, when playing a video, to select them for that video, you need to "Toggle secondary subtitle control" with Ctrl+Shift+V (this means that the normal subtitle control shortcuts like "v", "Alt+v" etc. now apply to the secondary subtitles) and press "v" the right number of times to switch to the subtitles that you want.

(Obviously vlc and mpv will only work for DRM-free videos, e.g. from youtube or a DVD.)

If you were asking specifically about Netflix subtitles, there used to be an open source NflxMultiSubs extension[1] for both Firefox and Chromium, but it was broken by Netflix introducing changes to its video player and discontinued. There is an active, open-source dual-captions[2] extension, but it's for Chrome only. (However, since it's open source adapting it it for Firefox should be straightforward.) Finally, as an alternative approach, you could try a Firefox addon which allows loading arbitrary subtitles in the SRT format to netflix,[3] and which might perhaps allow you to have both netflix's subtitles and your own SRT ones at the same time.

[0] https://github.com/videolan/vlc/blob/master/NEWS#L30

[1] https://github.com/dannvix/NflxMultiSubs/

[2] https://github.com/mikesteele/dual-captions

[3] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/netflix-srt-s...

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#102

Post by josteink » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

SJetKaran wrote: post #37

nitrogen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure, but maybe the subtitle tracks have different licensing?

Prime video shows all subtitles. Even if we assume it is licensing, then Netflix's own shows should show more subtitles, but they just don't. I think they see showing tons of subtitle languages being shown as an UX issue.

So form over function then?

That’s also a form of UX fail.

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#103

Post by tvanantwerp » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

androng wrote: post #27

Watch in a foreign language with foreign audio to increase your listening comprehension in the foreign language. Only watch in your native language/subtitles if you want to comprehend the plot more. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4927148/

I've been wanting to learn Chinese, but I'm not sure Chinese subtitles would help that much compared to if I were learning a European language. Maybe if the subtitles were in pinyin, but I don't know if that would even be an option for a lot of media.

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#104

Post by dharmon » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

imjustsaying wrote: post #39

In practice, the foreign subtitles do not line up with the foreign words as well as the native subtitles line up with the native words. It took me years to figure out why this was. In a conversation I had with someone who knew the business, the new language subtitles don't line up with the new language audio because the new language subtitles are translated from the original language subtitles, not the new language a…

For a language learner, shows where they match up are gold!

If anyone is studying Spanish, the animated show Star Wars: The Clone Wars have audio that exactly matches the subtitles (Start Wars: La Guerra de los Clones). Good show with a good mix of action / dialogue that I learned of Spanish a lot while watching.

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#105

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

Grue3 wrote: post #71

I can see several problems with this. 1. Japanese subtitles are completely different from what is said in Japanese dub. Subtitles are optimized for readability and use completely different phrasing, or even terms (for example dub says クイーン ("queen"), sub says 女王 ("jo-oh")). 2. Japanese subtitles and English subtitles are also different, because many lines have to be completely rephrased in order to express them in a…

> (for example dub says クイーン ("queen"), sub says 女王 ("jo-oh"))

My Japanese comprehension is still very minimal, but wouldn't this be pretty normal? It seems common in manga at least to use kanji for semantic meaning and annotate it with furigana for a foreign word or in-universe term.

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#106

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

walterkrankheit wrote: post #86

I guess this is most useful if you don't live in the country you want to learn the language for. Native English speaker living in Germany here who speaks fluent German, but still lives most of his life in English. Movies are a good way to keep up language practice, but there's no way I'd want to dub "Marriage Story" or whatever in German. There are plenty of German films on Netflix which I can simply watch with CC Ge…

[deleted]

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#107

Post by hrasyid » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #51

ta999999171 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most effective Netflix kids/otherwise shows for this, in your opinion? TIA

The shows that interest you. The ones you would actually watch. I imagine this rules out kids shows for most adults. It sure does for me. Also start reading books asap. I spent way too long watching dub+sub'ed Netflix in my target language. Wish I'd tried reading young-adult books sooner. If you're going to be pausing on every subtitle frame to read it, you might as well try books.

>> I imagine this rules out kids shows for most adults.

Not necessarily. Maybe if you understand everything, they become boring, but to me watching an interesting enough show where you understand 50%-80% of the dialog and try to understand the rest by context is kind of fun.

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#108

Post by jakub_g » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #48

imjustsaying wrote: post #39

In practice, the foreign subtitles do not line up with the foreign words as well as the native subtitles line up with the native words. It took me years to figure out why this was. In a conversation I had with someone who knew the business, the new language subtitles don't line up with the new language audio because the new language subtitles are translated from the original language subtitles, not the new language a…

There's practical reason too. Translations made for overdubbing are designed to roughly take the same amount of time to say, and ideally to carry the punch in the same part of the sentence (so it fits with when the actor makes the corresponding funny face). This is not always trivial, to the point that sometimes translators change the meaning entirely (especially with eg comedy - entire jokes are reinvented because t…

I know this too well as I tried learning French by watching FR dubbing with FR subtitles on Netflix.

There's absolutely zero resemblance between the two. Different words used, different order within the sentence (dubbing says "A B C" while subtitles say "C B A" half of the time). Pure madness. I immediately had to stop because it's been impossible to follow the two :(

Practically, not many people want dubbing and subtitles at the same time, so it's probably rational choice to save the costs.

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#109

Post by pimmen » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 2:56 PM UTC

dharmon wrote: post #104

imjustsaying wrote: post #39

In practice, the foreign subtitles do not line up with the foreign words as well as the native subtitles line up with the native words. It took me years to figure out why this was. In a conversation I had with someone who knew the business, the new language subtitles don't line up with the new language audio because the new language subtitles are translated from the original language subtitles, not the new language a…

For a language learner, shows where they match up are gold! If anyone is studying Spanish, the animated show Star Wars: The Clone Wars have audio that exactly matches the subtitles (Start Wars: La Guerra de los Clones). Good show with a good mix of action / dialogue that I learned of Spanish a lot while watching.

Thanks for this tip! Working on my Spanish as we speak!

Re: Language Learning with Netflix extension

#110

Post by hrasyid » Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

gield wrote: post #78

hrasyid wrote: post #10

I think having subtitles in your native language can hurt learning because it tends to be easier to just follow the subtitle than actually trying to understand the target language. You can't read both at the same time. But I agree that Netflix is a great resource for learning a foreign language. I went from zero to being able to understand a normal TV show in the target language in one year, mostly by watching childr…

I respectfully disagree, based on anecdotes. The Dutch-speaking part of Belgium subtitles everything, except for shows meant for kids <8 years old. The French-speaking part on the other hand dubs everything, even interviews in the news. Guess which part of country sucks at speaking English.

My point is you need to watch the target language audio with no subtitle in your language.

If the choice is English-audio + Dutch-subtitle vs French-audio only, then of course there is no advantage to the second group. Try restricting the French-speaking kids to watch shows with English audio only.