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Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

uk.reuters.com

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Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#21

Post by carlmr »

someonehere wrote: post #13
lousken wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I’m in the market for one. When you have two kids that are car seat age, two car seats eat up a lot of room in smaller cars. Then when you and your partner need to go somewhere, there’s barely any room for strollers and diaper bags. If they made roomier cars I’d be all for it, but they don’t. So I have to buy something that offers room. Some people don’t want to drive vans.

Station wagons have lots of space and better aerodynamics as well as being only slightly heavier than the same car as a coupé.

Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#22

Post by braythwayt »

someonehere wrote: post #13
lousken wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I’m in the market for one. When you have two kids that are car seat age, two car seats eat up a lot of room in smaller cars. Then when you and your partner need to go somewhere, there’s barely any room for strollers and diaper bags. If they made roomier cars I’d be all for it, but they don’t. So I have to buy something that offers room. Some people don’t want to drive vans.

> If they made roomier cars I’d be all for it, but they don’t.

I drive a full-sized Volvo wagon. I've also driven a full-sized Ford Taurus wagon. Plenty of room for two tall kids (my son is 6'4", my daughter is well on her way to 6'), and in the days of my Taurus, it would carry a child, a baby seat, a stroller, even a bicycle and a trailer.

Besides a thing about SUVs versus car form factors, I have test-driven Volvo's equivalent SUVs, and while they often claim similar cargo volume to the wagons, I find the wagon's long and low profile more useful for the kinds of things I tend to carry. Bikes are a lot easier in a wagon, in my experience.

YMMV.

Of course, there are F-150s and Chevy Suburbans and extra-long Escalades for those who absolutely, positively want to drive a truck.

Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#23

Post by signal11 »

lousken wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I remember reading somewhere that the biggest buyers of SUVs (albeit compact SUVs) are mothers / young parents who think minivans are too ugly. SUVs have lots of space for kids and a large boot to take everything from bicycles to shopping. And of course the better SUVs do have lots of safety features.

Car manufacturers know this, which is why 7-seater SUVs are now a thing. Luckily they’re also working on hybrid and electric models.

These articles on female car-buying habits are interesting. These (and many other articles) note that boot space and seat comfort are big factors in making the buy decision.

[1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/women-are-more-likely-to-d...

[2] https://abcnews.go.com/Business/time-car-companies-wake-wome...

Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#24

Post by ehnto »

carlmr wrote: post #21
someonehere wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in the market for one. When you have two kids that are car seat age, two car seats eat up a lot of room in smaller cars. Then when you and your partner need to go somewhere, there’s barely any room for strollers and diaper bags. If they made roomier cars I’d be all for it, but they don’t. So I have to buy something that offers room. Some people don’t want to drive vans.

Station wagons have lots of space and better aerodynamics as well as being only slightly heavier than the same car as a coupé.

Sport wagons also look awesome, in my humble opinion. Euro and Australian sport wagons are surprisingly aesthetically pleasing. Not to forget the golden era of 90s Japanese sport wagons.

Granted the sport version power trains weren't always economically inclined, but there was always a standard option.

Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#25

Post by Thriptic »

obblekk wrote: post #12

Why are these mutually exclusive? An electric drive train can be fitted to an SUV form factor. In fact, it might be easier to get to an acceptable range (300mi) because there’s more space for more batteries (assuming each battery delivers more range than its weight continues to scale). I think the easiest way to accelerate decarbonization is to make green tech more desirable independent of the greenness. If people wa…

I would guess that we aren't seeing electric SUVs due to cost.

That being said, I'm not sure why you are being aggressively downvoted as your basic premise is correct. Most people are not going to buy an inferior vehicle (eg small, uncomfortable, slow, less capable, expensive, etc) just because it is green. I know people on HN might, and good for them for doing so, but that's not going to be the case more broadly. If we want mass adoption of green vehicles, either the vehicles have to be relatively on par quality wise with existing non-hybrid gas vehicles, there has to be social status attached to owning one (eg Tesla), there has to be a regulatory change, or the operating cost of gas vehicles has to go way up (ie fuel needs to be taxed aggressively) to cause operating costs to figure strongly in the buying decision.

Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#26

Post by braythwayt »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #14
aSockPuppeteer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve avoided accidents due to sitting higher in a SUV or truck by seeing what is in front of the driver ahead of me.

This is the reality. You also get cut off way less and that alone avoids plenty of accidents.

I drive a fair bit, and I'm here to tell you:

The type of person who cuts another driver off does not do a lot of thinking about the relative consequences. I've seen plenty of tiny sedans with oversized tailpipes, wings and a dozen mod stickers cutting off big SUVs.

Heck, they even dart in front of semis on the highway. They do not care if you're in an XC 90 instead of an S60.

Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#27

Post by shrubble »

Buying an SUV is sometimes due to network effects.

If you are in a sedan, it isn't high enough to allow you to see traffic through the windshields of the SUV ahead of you, it's not much different than being behind an 18-wheeler.

So as a defensive maneuver, you also buy an SUV...

Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#28

Post by CarVac »

aSockPuppeteer wrote: post #9
lousken wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I’ve avoided accidents due to sitting higher in a SUV or truck by seeing what is in front of the driver ahead of me.

And I've avoided accidents by looking through the rear window of the car ahead of me.

Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#29

Post by ken »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #19
ken wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is, also, safer. I've seen what a minivan does to a Corolla, and I'd much rather be in something the size of a minivan. Looking at a crash between two vehicles of very different size isn't a fair test. Smaller cars are much more able to avoid getting into wrecks in the first place. We fully expect, simply based on mass, that vans will be better at passive safety, and worse at active safety.

Sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid an accident with another driver. You can get in a crash standing still at an intersection. In an accident, the biggest car will win. If the average car on the road was a Mini Cooper I wouldn't worry about it. But with the prevalence of SUVs, anyone driving something smaller than a crossover is taking a big personal risk.

From the research I've seen, that's not a significant factor. People aren't dying in their compact cars sitting at intersections. Sure, sometimes it happens -- and sometimes a semi or train hits you and even an SUV won't help.

According to the IIHS, for example, the little 2-door Honda Civic has about the same fatality rate as the safest large SUVs.

People in small cars aren't "taking a big risk". About as many people in America die of influenza as car crashes, so if you're driving an SUV but haven't gotten a free flu shot, I don't believe you're doing it out of some calculated risk assessment.

Re: Soaring SUV sales keep carmakers on collision course with climate policy

#30

Post by [deleted] »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #19
ken wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is, also, safer. I've seen what a minivan does to a Corolla, and I'd much rather be in something the size of a minivan. Looking at a crash between two vehicles of very different size isn't a fair test. Smaller cars are much more able to avoid getting into wrecks in the first place. We fully expect, simply based on mass, that vans will be better at passive safety, and worse at active safety.

Sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid an accident with another driver. You can get in a crash standing still at an intersection. In an accident, the biggest car will win. If the average car on the road was a Mini Cooper I wouldn't worry about it. But with the prevalence of SUVs, anyone driving something smaller than a crossover is taking a big personal risk.

[deleted]
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