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Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

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Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#111

Post by ausjke »

ausjke wrote: post #7

Totally disagree. It's 1000000 times better than without a job, a job at least helps mental status and boost some esteem. Also it's 1000000000000 times better than living on welfare or food stamps. for himself/herself and for the society.

I came from poverty, struggled all my way up, and I'm a strong believer that no matter what, you have to WORK and to earn your life. Those people with good life from born and call others "slave" are not helping anyone, in fact you're trying to make more true slaves by that attitude. Always encourage others to work/study/be-independent as much as you can.

During the time without a job and when I am in poverty, I _NEVER_ sought for food stamp or any government help, I consider it is a shame to me per my own standard, and this is the only way I got out of the poverty.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#112

Post by ikeboy »

jiofih wrote: post #89
ikeboy wrote: post #23

>In a recent analysis, we found that 53 million workers ages 18 to 64—or 44% of all workers—earn barely enough to live on. Their median earnings are $10.22 per hour, and about $18,000 per year. Right away, they're presenting some large number that's actually double the real number of people below that threshold. If the median is $10.22, that means only half of them make less than that. They then make a bunch of broad…

> then productivity would be higher in other jobs, which would increase pay for their example jobs due to the Baumol effect. Laughing hard here. You just invented “trickle-down pay raises”! If everybody has a degree, the degree doesn’t matter anymore, does it? Being a bachelor of economics will not make you a better burger deliverer. Plus the effect only hold due to a few sectors like IT paying disproportionately - o…

>Being a bachelor of economics will not make you a better burger deliverer.

No one said it did. But if your other option is something that's more productive, then the only way you'll agree to deliver burgers is if you're paid as much as the alternative. This has been known for half a century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease

Pay rises in industries without productivity increases to match those in industries with productivity increases because of competition.

Of course, this is in the hypothetical where everyone has a college degree and assuming that the value of a degree is in human capital, which I pointed out explicitly was something I'm assuming.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#113

Post by pytester »

dfilppi wrote: post #106
pytester wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would still make these things more affordable. And, save perhaps childcare, increasing the cost of low waged labor would not have an outsized inflationary effect on them. Certainly not on housing. The cost of housing/rent is predicated on a shortage of hoarded, largely untaxed land.

Untaxed? Where? Got the car gassed up.

Untaxed as a verb. E.g. California reducing property taxes to absurdly low levels with prop 13, diverting the spoils of the land to the owners instead (in the form of ridiculously high valuations and streams of rental income).

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#114

Post by wavefunction »

datashow wrote: post #39
paulsutter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Participation rate is not politically motivated, but citing it can be. This was widely cited by the right during the Obama administration and now by the left during the Trump administration.

Is the left citing labor participation rate during the Trump administration? This is strange, because the labor participation rate is recovering since Trump elected.

>the left

I will indulge you, though I doubt my points will perhaps provide any clarity to your understanding of the situation. Trump has undertaken many efforts that will force the impoverished and disabled into the McJobs creation that Trump is so proud of during his tenure.

The Trump administration has cut benefits programs that our society's most vulnerable rely upon, like SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)[0][1] or Meals on Wheels[2] and reduced the number of people qualifying for disability benefits.[3]

Trump's plans for 2020 and beyond look to go even farther[4] in targeting the elderly, the disabled and children.

[0]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/12/21/trump-...

[1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/04/trump-adm...

[2]https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2018/02/14/what-...

[3]https://www.thenation.com/article/chained-cpi-poverty-score/

[4]https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/12/18260271/t...

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#115

Post by twojacobtwo »

koheripbal wrote: post #59
supernova87a wrote: post #36

I don't think low unemployment is the unequivocal positive sign that politicians/ think it is ("We're putting millions of Americans back to work!"). Maybe it's not something to be so proud of. If people are having to come out of the woodwork to take jobs that aren't moving the average wage up, maybe they're doing it because they have to, in order to get by. Is it a good thing that a 60+ year old goes back to work at…

Even the lowest wage bracket of jobs has kept up with price inflation overall.

Do you have any sources to back up that claim?

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#116

Post by behringer »

CivBase wrote: post #71
HenryKissinger wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health care is not tied to employment in Canada, for one.

Heath insurance is a benefit offered by some US employers as an alternative form of compensation. Employers get discounted rates because of how many customers they bring to the insurer and they pocket some of those savings while passing the rest on to the employees. You can get health insurance without having a job. It's expensive, but it's not like it's cheap through employers. Just cheap er . Health care - at least…

You can't get treatment for life-threatening "conditions". You can only get treatment for life-threatening "emergencies". You got a tumor? Good fucking luck. You got a seizure because of your tumor? Come on in and we'll make sure to send you an absurd bill later.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#117

Post by ikeboy »

jiofih wrote: post #110
Rerarom wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course degrees matter. Knowledge creates productivity, which creates wealth.

You’re taking that sentence as an absolute, not in the context of low-wage jobs. And it it is a liberal fantasy, right next to meritocracy. That wealth stays put exactly where it is, at the top of the chain. All studies on labor show productivity gains far outpacing salaries in the past century. A well-paid knowledge worker today can barely meet the lifestyle of his factory worker grandparents.

https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/es/07...

This is the result Google currently features for "productivity effect on wages". The chart shows total compensation tracking productivity very closely, although it only goes back a quarter century.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#118

Post by c22 »

rexreed wrote: post #47

I would like to advance a different opinion. There are many that are proponents of Universal Basic Income (UBI). However, many state that one problem with UBI is that it comes at the expense of personal gratification and economic productivity. I am of the opinion that low wage jobs are a form of UBI. In this manner, individuals are paid a basic income in exchange for their productivity. However, these jobs are not me…

Unfortunately the existing landscape of flipping burgers and driving for Uber Eats is fairly limited.

UBI allows people to be productive in ways that haven't always been appreciated by society such as raising children, producing a profound portfolio of art, or caring for the disadvantaged.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#119

Post by quadrifoliate »

supernova87a wrote: post #36

I don't think low unemployment is the unequivocal positive sign that politicians/ think it is ("We're putting millions of Americans back to work!"). Maybe it's not something to be so proud of. If people are having to come out of the woodwork to take jobs that aren't moving the average wage up, maybe they're doing it because they have to, in order to get by. Is it a good thing that a 60+ year old goes back to work at…

> I don't think low unemployment is the unequivocal positive sign that politicians/ think it is ("We're putting millions of Americans back to work!").

It's just the kind of marketing that happens to work with the Protestant mentality of the majority of people here. And that's slowly starting to change, with Sanders and other progressive politicians asking about the well-being of Americans as opposed to raw numbers about whether they can work 4 part-time jobs or not.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#120

Post by maxerickson »

CivBase wrote: post #71
HenryKissinger wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health care is not tied to employment in Canada, for one.

Heath insurance is a benefit offered by some US employers as an alternative form of compensation. Employers get discounted rates because of how many customers they bring to the insurer and they pocket some of those savings while passing the rest on to the employees. You can get health insurance without having a job. It's expensive, but it's not like it's cheap through employers. Just cheap er . Health care - at least…

Lots of medium sized (and larger) companies self insure and pay an outside company for administration rather than insurance (insurance companies often offer this type of service).
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