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Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

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Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#91

Post by sanj »

seanmccann wrote: post #63
jkoudys wrote: post #22

America has a weird sense of superiority about its lower unemployment numbers vs Canada. The difference is the US, you basically need a job, or else you're one broken ankle, complex childbirth, or infected hangnail away from complete financial ruin. People being able to take extra time to find the right job is a good thing for the economy. Better than being driven by an abject fear of not having a job.

As far as I understand — without private insurance in Canada, somebody with few resources in Canada is at risk of financial ruin from any of the health conditions you mentioned. For older Canadians, a pre-existing condition may not be covered, which means a serious condition could rack up significant medical bills. Edit: I should have specifically said that I'm talking about expensive prescription drugs and required…

This is flatly incorrect.

The Canadian healthcare system doesn’t even have the concept of “pre-existing condition”. That term is deeply flawed and was constructed by the healthcare insurance system in the USA.

The term used in Canada is “medical history”.

I’m at an age where I’m watching my friends in Canada deal with family suffering from long term illnesses and ultimately, death.

They all deal with anguish, grief, heartbreak, and in some cases depression.

But none of them are dealing with medical bills.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#92

Post by shkkmo »

k33n wrote: post #44
jkoudys wrote: post #22

America has a weird sense of superiority about its lower unemployment numbers vs Canada. The difference is the US, you basically need a job, or else you're one broken ankle, complex childbirth, or infected hangnail away from complete financial ruin. People being able to take extra time to find the right job is a good thing for the economy. Better than being driven by an abject fear of not having a job.

I don't think it's terribly strange to view lower unemployment numbers as something to strive for. The idea that I might not need a job (when I haven't accumulated the resources to support myself without one) is totally foreign to me, and not attractive at all. I grew tremendously as a person working jobs I didn't enjoy. I only work on what I want to now, and I couldn't imagine I'd be very satisfied with my life I di…

There are jobs that you don't enjoy but that will help you achieve a better future. Then there are jobs that do nothing but provide a temporary stop gap from financial ruin.

The idea isn't that you don't need a job, the idea is that you are less dependent on finding a job right away so that you can find a good fit between your skills and your goals and your job. This not only will lead to a better life for you, but more overall economic productivity.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#93

Post by werber »

throw0x1away wrote: post #21
steve-benjamins wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been a jobless adult or on food stamps?

Are you saying that it's better to be on food-stamps than having a "low-paying" job? You are part of the problem. This mentality is extremely harmful for society as a whole, as well as for individual taxpayers.

Having a low paying job and being on food stamps is a necessity for a lot of people

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#94

Post by dfilppi »

funklute wrote: post #17
ausjke wrote: post #7

Totally disagree. It's 1000000 times better than without a job, a job at least helps mental status and boost some esteem. Also it's 1000000000000 times better than living on welfare or food stamps. for himself/herself and for the society.

Eventually you approach (modern) slavery though, and the transition is not black to white, but a continuous one. So your argument, without any qualifications, actually implies that (modern) slavery is not a problem. I hope it is obvious to you why that is a highly unreasonable argument.

No. Slavery isnt voluntary by definition, and that is it's most essential feature.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#95

Post by Ericson2314 »

avsteele wrote: post #68
jkoudys wrote: post #22

America has a weird sense of superiority about its lower unemployment numbers vs Canada. The difference is the US, you basically need a job, or else you're one broken ankle, complex childbirth, or infected hangnail away from complete financial ruin. People being able to take extra time to find the right job is a good thing for the economy. Better than being driven by an abject fear of not having a job.

If your AGI is below ~$27K you have medicaid. As i understand it, CHIP covers kids higher the he income scale this too.

If you cross that barrier switching between unemployed and employed, there is mounds of paperwork. I wish I could cite a study, but I'm pretty sure people procrastinate / preventative health measures are less prevalent because of this red type.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#96

Post by alsoh »

k33n wrote: post #44
jkoudys wrote: post #22

America has a weird sense of superiority about its lower unemployment numbers vs Canada. The difference is the US, you basically need a job, or else you're one broken ankle, complex childbirth, or infected hangnail away from complete financial ruin. People being able to take extra time to find the right job is a good thing for the economy. Better than being driven by an abject fear of not having a job.

I don't think it's terribly strange to view lower unemployment numbers as something to strive for. The idea that I might not need a job (when I haven't accumulated the resources to support myself without one) is totally foreign to me, and not attractive at all. I grew tremendously as a person working jobs I didn't enjoy. I only work on what I want to now, and I couldn't imagine I'd be very satisfied with my life I di…

Would you prefer a system which teaches you in let's say a high quality education system?

If yes: imagine a world where more people are willing to do other jobs more social because money becomes less relevant.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#97

Post by wgerard »

rexreed wrote: post #47

I would like to advance a different opinion. There are many that are proponents of Universal Basic Income (UBI). However, many state that one problem with UBI is that it comes at the expense of personal gratification and economic productivity. I am of the opinion that low wage jobs are a form of UBI. In this manner, individuals are paid a basic income in exchange for their productivity. However, these jobs are not me…

> However, these jobs are not meant to create wealth. They're meant to provide subsistance. This is much the same goal of UBI.

I'm not even a proponent of UBI, but I immediately see a few problems with your argument here:

1) They often don't provide subsistence, hence the necessity for many people to have multiple jobs. While we can adjust UBI accordingly (to some extent, obviously CoL is a thing), it's significantly more difficult to adjust around people working multiple jobs.

2) You're missing a critical component of UBI, which is that people are free to pursue whatever they might like (including nothing at all) without the fear of losing basic necessities. Low wage jobs obviously preclude you from doing that--because you're, well, spending your time working those jobs.

This is hyperbole of course, but we may very well be missing out on a modern-era Emily Dickinson or Darwin because they're spending all their time working minimum wage jobs.

3) Everyone's already moving heavily towards automation. Corporations don't employ people out of the goodness of their hearts. The second it becomes cheaper to automate something, those jobs will disappear. You can already see this to some extent with automated checkout lines, internet vs. retail shopping, etc. Unless you do something drastic ala NJ and Oregon with enforcing low-wage work like gas station attendants, those jobs quickly fade away.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#98

Post by Frost1x »

_0uto wrote: post #31

I see a lot of protestant mentality here in comments valuing any kind of even inhumane labour which does not allow to meet basic needs over not having a job, but also not suffering from hunger thanks to the social support system. In my opinion, we as a society should aim to work less and less, collectively making use of automation and technological progress. But it will be hard when we label this as being lazy and no…

Another issue is who owns these automation processes. If I used my vast financial resources to develop (i.e. pay people to develop) a new automation process, what rights do you have to my gains? Why should I share it with you?

This mentality and ownership really needs to be rethought.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#99

Post by vertex-four »

CivBase wrote: post #71
HenryKissinger wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health care is not tied to employment in Canada, for one.

Heath insurance is a benefit offered by some US employers as an alternative form of compensation. Employers get discounted rates because of how many customers they bring to the insurer and they pocket some of those savings while passing the rest on to the employees. You can get health insurance without having a job. It's expensive, but it's not like it's cheap through employers. Just cheap er . Health care - at least…

Try getting healthcare in the US without health insurance, and try affording health insurance when you don't have good enough work. Yeah... thought so.

You edited your post to add a line about emergency healthcare being a legal obligation of hospitals - we both know that emergency healthcare (i.e. "I am literally dying right this second") is not the total of necessary healthcare for many people. I invite you to try surviving very long as a diabetic when the only treatment option is to go to A&E when you are literally dying.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#100

Post by ykevinator »

zzzeek wrote: post #83
jkoudys wrote: post #22

America has a weird sense of superiority about its lower unemployment numbers vs Canada. The difference is the US, you basically need a job, or else you're one broken ankle, complex childbirth, or infected hangnail away from complete financial ruin. People being able to take extra time to find the right job is a good thing for the economy. Better than being driven by an abject fear of not having a job.

> America has a weird sense of superiority about its lower unemployment numbers vs Canada I don't think that's actually true, I think it's a political talking point that we are all hit over the head with repeatedly. A key progressive talking point is that the issue of so-called "prosperity" is not as simple as "everyone has a job". This is where the issue of people having multiple jobs, minimum wage, benefits, unions…

So we agree that prosperity is not as simple as everyone has a job
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