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Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

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61–70 of 179 posts

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#61
This article was an interesting read, but I think it got the basics incorrect. Financial elites and corporations increasingly control governments in clever and effective ways: Few corporations control almost all news media, fragment population using news media to make (to use the USA as an example) Democrat’s fear and distrust republicans and vice versa, turn over public assets to corporations at bargain basement prices, etc.

A bit off topic but: even though I am not a particularly strong Go and Chess player, I really appreciate reading through good games. Looking at the way elites have slowly taken over power since the end of the civil war (again using the USA as an example), with a slow and well played game, I must say “well played Sirs and Madames, well played.”

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... nice one Jony ... design a brave and “beautiful” open plan workspace for a paranoiacally secretive organisation. I feel like it's worth pointing out that Steve Jobs was still running Apple when this building was designed. I don't work for Norman Foster so I have no way to know how much changed internally after he died, but I doubt the balance shifted too wildly given the logistical constraints of massive constr…

> I'd want to foster a corporate culture of extreme openness and collaboration inside the walls Open space offices are entirely othogonal to this idea.

Even (information) openness and collaboration themselves are orthogonal. You can certainly have one without the other. Then the physical openness is another dimension. And so on and so forth.

So we'd need more information to know whether or not Apple is best optimized in all these, and more, dimensions. Way more information than we'd ever get from one person or team. (Definitely way more than Apple would ever give out.)

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#64

Problem is that states usually have constitutional safeguards that keep a safe balance of power between citizen and state. Not so with these companies. Step out of line and they can unperson you like that, and you can't vote on their leadership. And increasingly entire livelihoods and social existences are tied into them. This is why you're seeing states start to get so aggressive with them. The EU fining billions ou…

Forgive me for my naive thinking. But as long as country have a military power, isn’t that the ultimate deciding factor? Like, sure you can bully nations all you want, but as soon as they implement policies like “obey our rules or get out of our land or receive the end of the gunpowder” companies will just obey

>Forgive me for my naive thinking. But as long as country have a military power, isn’t that the ultimate deciding factor?

It's not naive, it's the way life works even though we don't like to admit it. They got the bigger guns. They're in charge. Full stop.

A Constitution and laws just tells us the conditions under which they will use their guns. Even then, they can and will use them on other occasions if they feel the situation warrants.

The idea that companies or citizens are more powerful than governments is fanciful in the extreme. When companies get militaries that can go toe to toe with the militaries of the various governments of the world, then I'll buy it.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... nice one Jony ... design a brave and “beautiful” open plan workspace for a paranoiacally secretive organisation. I feel like it's worth pointing out that Steve Jobs was still running Apple when this building was designed. I don't work for Norman Foster so I have no way to know how much changed internally after he died, but I doubt the balance shifted too wildly given the logistical constraints of massive constr…

> I'd want to foster a corporate culture of extreme openness and collaboration inside the walls Open space offices are entirely othogonal to this idea.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/in-open-offices-work...

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#66
post #2

This made me laugh ... > “Many employees don’t like Apple Park [the company’s new headquarters] because it has very few private offices. ... nice one Jony ... design a brave and “beautiful” open plan workspace for a paranoiacally secretive organisation. Says it all really.

And then leave.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#67
post #57

Problem is that states usually have constitutional safeguards that keep a safe balance of power between citizen and state. Not so with these companies. Step out of line and they can unperson you like that, and you can't vote on their leadership. And increasingly entire livelihoods and social existences are tied into them. This is why you're seeing states start to get so aggressive with them. The EU fining billions ou…

Problem is that states usually have constitutional safeguards that keep a safe balance of power between citizen and state. Not so with these companies. Step out of line and they can unperson you like that, and you can't vote on their leadership. And increasingly entire livelihoods and social existences are tied into them. The notional constitutional safeguards of states become eroded over time (n.b., interstate comme…

Corporations give private citizens power they should not have over their neighbors in a democracy.

HR can filter at mass, keeping people from work they enjoy. Advertising has social agency warping effects. And at scale we spend our time prioritizing paid speech. Policing valid speech at scale is how authoritarian states work.

“This is how you view the problem, how you design the solution, and how you speak to people. Or you don’t get to have shelter & eat.”

Sir, yes sir.

“Profits (or some other ideological target) must go up this quarter!”

Sir, yes sir.

Not allowed to truly question what happens if AI that can schedule hair appointments isn’t developed. Computing/engineering effort we know is destined for the bin as hardware changes. Seems economical.

That’s hardly a behavioral model for a free society.

Nah sorry. We have friendly oligarchs, and looking at Google’s shifting culture and the Amazon warehouse situation that’s been going on for years... very superficially friendly.

Political power is emotional. It fades generationally as people retire, or we could term limit officials.

A big enough pile of dollars means you can generate more faster than you can spend what you need to in order to stay on top.

Ownership is the root of political theory in America. And a smaller and smaller group really own anything.

And the powers that be know that: they’ve read it in academia’s papers and philosophers notes. If the public took ownership of the manner of production (IMO themselves not factories) and stayed home for a week, politics would be shifting real fast.

We keep looking at history to learn about us. Is it any shock we keep developing top down authoritarian structures when we’re casually fetishizing their previous existence? What was becomes hard to look beyond when continually referencing the material. Wonder what humanity could look like if future people read about past people living differently.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#69
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me for my naive thinking. But as long as country have a military power, isn’t that the ultimate deciding factor? Like, sure you can bully nations all you want, but as soon as they implement policies like “obey our rules or get out of our land or receive the end of the gunpowder” companies will just obey

> Forgive me for my naive thinking. But as long as country have a military power, isn’t that the ultimate deciding factor? It's not naive, it's the way life works even though we don't like to admit it. They got the bigger guns. They're in charge. Full stop. A Constitution and laws just tells us the conditions under which they will use their guns. Even then, they can and will use them on other occasions if they feel t…

The OP mentioned companies play a kingmaker role by owning the platforms on which elections are won and lost. The implication is that they can directly and disproportionately influence the government, such that the government is their tool and not the people’s tool, as in a bonafide democracy.

The question isn’t whether the government or corporations have more power, it’s whether corporations or the people control the government and in which proportions.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#70
post #57

Problem is that states usually have constitutional safeguards that keep a safe balance of power between citizen and state. Not so with these companies. Step out of line and they can unperson you like that, and you can't vote on their leadership. And increasingly entire livelihoods and social existences are tied into them. This is why you're seeing states start to get so aggressive with them. The EU fining billions ou…

Problem is that states usually have constitutional safeguards that keep a safe balance of power between citizen and state. Not so with these companies. Step out of line and they can unperson you like that, and you can't vote on their leadership. And increasingly entire livelihoods and social existences are tied into them. The notional constitutional safeguards of states become eroded over time (n.b., interstate comme…

The notional constitutional safeguards of states become eroded over time (n.b., interstate commerce, mass data collection) and the overreach of states is more potentially damaging to its citizens than getting locked out of a platform on which you built a business.

States are not meant to be corrupt in this way, and have several avenues for reform by will of the people. Companies benefit from a dictatorial stance, and therefore the only effective recourse against unjust treatment is partial or total destruction.

>Political power can be spent over and over. Dollars can only be spent once. Credit is a thing.

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