51–60 of 138 posts
Yeah, this is fucking insane, from top-to-bottom... left-to-right... inside-and-out... fucking insane. This is quite literally forced indentured servitude, or what I normally call "slavery." This is fucking slavery. At no point should one be forced to work before or after they've already paid their "debt" to society; extreme circumstances not withstanding (i.e. you still have a billion dollars after serving your time…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Potato potato, that person would not have been in prison had they paid off the debt . Where the debt comes from matters why exactly? The prison should be for one purpose only: to make society safer. If someone is dangerous enough to be in prison, they should not be out regardless of whether they owe money or not. In other words, if you can't buy your way out of prison, a debt should not bring you into one.
I will expand upon your point. Debt in this case is a civil matter between two private individuals. The State has an interest only, if that, in enforcing court decisions such as garnishment of wages or liens. To sentence someone to jail or prison for the crime of a civil disagreement is sick and wrong and I invite you (abstract yous) to prove me wrong via rhetoric.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In that regard sure we arent the best. But there are far worse countries.
The U.S. has the single highest incarceration rate in the world. In that respect, we have the worst criminal justice system in the world. Other metrics matter, of course, but let's not kid ourselves: the American system is an unmitigated disaster.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Potato potato, that person would not have been in prison had they paid off the debt . Where the debt comes from matters why exactly? The prison should be for one purpose only: to make society safer. If someone is dangerous enough to be in prison, they should not be out regardless of whether they owe money or not. In other words, if you can't buy your way out of prison, a debt should not bring you into one.
> Potato potato, that person would not have been in prison had they paid off the debt. No. The meaning of words matters. Words, used precisely, are how people with different values and beliefs can communicate and reach agreements in a functioning society. When journalists, who are supposed to inform and educate the public, twist the meaning of words in order to make a point, that’s wrong. > Where the debt comes from…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Potato potato, that person would not have been in prison had they paid off the debt . Where the debt comes from matters why exactly? The prison should be for one purpose only: to make society safer. If someone is dangerous enough to be in prison, they should not be out regardless of whether they owe money or not. In other words, if you can't buy your way out of prison, a debt should not bring you into one.
I will expand upon your point. Debt in this case is a civil matter between two private individuals. The State has an interest only, if that, in enforcing court decisions such as garnishment of wages or liens. To sentence someone to jail or prison for the crime of a civil disagreement is sick and wrong and I invite you (abstract yous) to prove me wrong via rhetoric.
And the line between civil and criminal is often drawn in a peculiar way: Repeat copyright violation enough and somehow it's criminal not civil, but systematically fail to pay artists their royalties it remains civil forever. Embezzling $1000 is criminal, keeping $1000 out of an employee paycheck is a civil.
The US has the highest real incarceration per capita on the planet except Seychelles, mostly for nonviolent crimes that were instituted (War on Drugs) by Nixon to attack the poor, minorities and other “opponents.” Also consider the number of for-profit prisons and the prison industrial complex that runs transportation, staffing and internal services for the public prisons. It’s also worth carefully re-reading the tex…
The more I read about "justice" in the US the more I realise how fucked up and perverted the concept of justice is in that country. We're always quick to criticise other countries for the failings or bad design of their justice system and lack of respect for human rights, but are we much better? We might be better on paper, but is that actually reflected in reality? I'm not so sure.
If you get convicted for embezzlement , as in the first example in the article, and don't pay your fines and restitution, what do you think the courts should do?
Yeah, this is fucking insane, from top-to-bottom... left-to-right... inside-and-out... fucking insane. This is quite literally forced indentured servitude, or what I normally call "slavery." This is fucking slavery. At no point should one be forced to work before or after they've already paid their "debt" to society; extreme circumstances not withstanding (i.e. you still have a billion dollars after serving your time…
Weird wording. The fact that the debt has not been paid is why they're working, no?
My dad's accountant embezzled from his business.
The person spent all the money over the years and by the the time they were caught, there was little left. And unfortunately, that's a pretty typical story. (FYI, business insurance may or may not cover internal theft; that's often a separate policy or a rider.)
In the end, the crime netted a hefty sum at the expense of the victim.
If you take something, you should have to give it back.
IDK what this vague "debt to society" is; I just know my dad is out $100k+.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Potato potato, that person would not have been in prison had they paid off the debt . Where the debt comes from matters why exactly? The prison should be for one purpose only: to make society safer. If someone is dangerous enough to be in prison, they should not be out regardless of whether they owe money or not. In other words, if you can't buy your way out of prison, a debt should not bring you into one.
> Potato potato, that person would not have been in prison had they paid off the debt. No. The meaning of words matters. Words, used precisely, are how people with different values and beliefs can communicate and reach agreements in a functioning society. When journalists, who are supposed to inform and educate the public, twist the meaning of words in order to make a point, that’s wrong. > Where the debt comes from…
That's a reasonable position to take, actually. Depends on the level of abuse, I'd say. https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/07/europe/uk-sally-challen-intl-...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you get convicted for embezzlement , as in the first example in the article, and don't pay your fines and restitution, what do you think the courts should do?
Wage garnishing is easy? If you have an employer then now they are on the hook for following through as well. Hell, shut down the restitution centers and use that budget to help cover court fees instead! Think about it: if someone gets fined $10,000 and is working minimum wage, is there really anything good accomplished by trying to recover that much? Just cap out some wage garnishment scheme if you want to fine them…
She also skipped her meeting with her probation officer, more than once, and she didn't report to the probation officer (or the court, whatever) that she got an increase in income, when she got her job at Harrah's. Funny, that.
They don't mention that in the article, do they.
Here's the hearing transcript: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6598211-Annita-Husba...