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Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

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31–40 of 138 posts

Re: Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

#31
The "except as a punishment for crime" in the 13th amendment was not in the first drafts. But less progressive minded forces got in the final version with the obvious intent of using it[1]. And it has certainly gotten a lot of use in spite of occasional whack-a-mole attempts to moderate it.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

Re: Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that regard sure we arent the best. But there are far worse countries.

The U.S. has the single highest incarceration rate in the world. In that respect, we have the worst criminal justice system in the world. Other metrics matter, of course, but let's not kid ourselves: the American system is an unmitigated disaster.

In some places, incarceration rates could be lower only because capital punishment is much more widely used.

Not that US's incarceration rates are sane; to the contrary.

I definitely think that incarceration is actively harmful at fighting crime, because it puts a criminal in an environment of worse criminals, and provides room and board to just hang with them and learn their rules by heart (or be abused, or killed by them). Then the felon is released and has a lot of trouble finding work, so the new criminal knowledge burns to be used.

Re: Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13th Amendment Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted , shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

I don't think failing to pay a debt is a "crime" under American law. Edit: reading the article, these people have failed to pay the fines associated with criminal convictions.

People are regularly jailed for civil infractions such as traffic tickets, and failing to pay fines from such infractions.

They are also held on bail when they cannot afford to pay, this is before found guilty of any crime.

Re: Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said she decided? She may have just perceived it as one of those things that happens.

People think pregnancy just .. happens?

Mississippi has an abstinence only sex education which is why it has one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the nation. don’t teach about birth control methods people don’t use them.

Re: Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

#35

"Looking back, Husband said she was punished for being poor..." Nonsense: she was punished for embezzling $11,000 from her place of employment.

At first I nodded in agreement. Then I wondered if someone had the $11,000 would they still be in jail?

Re: Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

#36
> A judge sentenced Husband to the restitution center in 2015 to pay off almost $13,000 she owed from an embezzlement conviction in 2009.

> The State of Mississippi had locked Husband into a modern-day debtors prison.

Let’s agree that this sort of punishment is potentially not conducive to restorative justice.

But what justification is there for the article to deceive the reader with a comparison to debtors prisons?

The EU Convention on Human Rights bans debtors prisons. It states: "No one shall be deprived of his liberty merely on the ground of inability to fulfil a contractual obligation." Restitution as punishment for a crime does not arise out of a “contractual obligation.” It arises out of a criminal conviction.

Re: Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

#38

From what I understand there are a metric fuckton of people imprisoned for inability to pay child support, so I'd say debtor prisons aren't limited to Mississippi.

People in other states who are imprisoned for inability to pay child support, etc. are released at the end of a finite sentence; they are not held indefinitely until they pay off an ever-increasing debt to the state at a low wage job. That's what defines debtors prisons.

It’s disappointing to see factual comments like this downvoted

Re: Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

#39
post #36

> A judge sentenced Husband to the restitution center in 2015 to pay off almost $13,000 she owed from an embezzlement conviction in 2009. > The State of Mississippi had locked Husband into a modern-day debtors prison. Let’s agree that this sort of punishment is potentially not conducive to restorative justice. But what justification is there for the article to deceive the reader with a comparison to debtors prisons?…

Potato potato, that person would not have been in prison had they paid off the debt.

Where the debt comes from matters why exactly?

The prison should be for one purpose only: to make society safer. If someone is dangerous enough to be in prison, they should not be out regardless of whether they owe money or not.

In other words, if you can't buy your way out of prison, a debt should not bring you into one.

Re: Think Debtors Prisons Are a Thing of the Past? Not in Mississippi

#40
Yeah, this is fucking insane, from top-to-bottom... left-to-right... inside-and-out... fucking insane.

This is quite literally forced indentured servitude, or what I normally call "slavery." This is fucking slavery.

At no point should one be forced to work before or after they've already paid their "debt" to society; extreme circumstances not withstanding (i.e. you still have a billion dollars after serving your time and can easily afford to pay back your debt). At no point, should ANYONE, be required to be imprisoned, worked, and have daily wages withheld for the "cost" of that imprisonment, furthering their imprisonment-- this is straight up a fucking violation of human rights and theft, the interest rate on the withholding is very likely not paid back, but I'm 100% sure they (prison owners or faction in that industry) profit on it.

Where can I donate what little money I have to stopping this fucked up practice and making it illegal? Maybe I missed it in the article due to the increasing amounts of (naive) disbelief and (pure) rage I encountered as I read it.

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