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Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

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Re: Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

#51
post #43

I hate the construct that you must be a business in order to make money. Not only that, but you must be a reasonably-successful business. Talk about a chicken and egg problem. I'm trying to bootstrap a product that charges between $10-40/mo per user. Right now I have no users, but I hope to get a few over the next couple of months. What are my options? Do I have to incorporate in order to get a merchant gateway? Do I…

one option would be to let your early users help you test things out for free.. with chargify, you can set up your site and everything in test mode, without paying for anything (I believe) as you work out the kinks. then you flip the switch to go from test to "live" when you feel you'll be able to cover the monthly fees.

Alternatively, you could do this, but charge your early customers via a simple Paypal recurring invoice until you're ready to turn on chargify.

Re: Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

#52
We use PayPal. The solution we found was to cancel the subscription and create a new one. Sure this isn't atomic but we haven't had anyone drop mid flow yet.

It looks and feels atomic to the user.

PayPal could go a long way to document their API better. The number of customers with PayPal accounts is large enough that we're willing to deal, especially since setup is a one time cost.

PayPal does not support monthly recurring billing between Germany and United States. Thats no good.

I think someone can displace PayPal but not enough payers are comfortable using services other than PayPal, especially on a startup site.

Hope this helps someone.

Re: Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

#54
post #43

I hate the construct that you must be a business in order to make money. Not only that, but you must be a reasonably-successful business. Talk about a chicken and egg problem. I'm trying to bootstrap a product that charges between $10-40/mo per user. Right now I have no users, but I hope to get a few over the next couple of months. What are my options? Do I have to incorporate in order to get a merchant gateway? Do I…

Just use PayPal, especially if you bootstrap.

Set up a recurring payments button and drop the HTML into a page. The IPN does the rest. Its simpler than you think:

http://blog.awarelabs.com/2008/paypal-ipn-python-code/

If within your first month of operation you have customers changing subscription plans then worry about how to deal with it.

Don't solve problems you dont have yet. If you don't have customers yet you've got more pressing concerns.

Having gone through this recently, Im hoping to save you pain.

Re: Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

#55
post #43

I hate the construct that you must be a business in order to make money. Not only that, but you must be a reasonably-successful business. Talk about a chicken and egg problem. I'm trying to bootstrap a product that charges between $10-40/mo per user. Right now I have no users, but I hope to get a few over the next couple of months. What are my options? Do I have to incorporate in order to get a merchant gateway? Do I…

I think you're taking bootstrapping to an extreme.

You should have at least a little bit of cash to burn (let's say $100 per month) until you get enough users to cover your costs.

Re: Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

#56
[full disclosure - I am a co-founder of Recurly] I'll do my best to be objective and help frame an inclusive approach to the answer.

First - you need to decide what kind of billing mechanics your business needs. (simple X$/mo or advanced- multiple plans, upgrades downgrades, add-ons, coupons, dunning, multi-currency support etc) - this is typically the first step in the build vs. buy eval.

Secondly - you need to evaluate your own available time/resources. Most eng. projects require 2x original estimate...you can easily apply 5-10X for billing since even the most talented developers don't get it 'right' the first time (add PCI and ongoing customer support + gateway recourse to your total estimates). The best developers can usually 'get it working' - but then realize they end up spending tremendous time to 'get it working well'.

Third - [Assume now you're buying vs. building] You need to choose a service that gives your business room/flexibility to grow. Many businesses decide to change gateways at some point - when new business needs emerge - [multi-currency support, better rates, customer support]. Don't hem yourself in by choosing a service that doesn't store your card data, and let you easily switch gateways. Numerous horror stories exist on this topic - won't cover here. Also important, don't choose ANY service that won't commit to returning your customer credit card data if/when you decide to leave them. [Braintree was a leader in this area, and Recurly fully supports the Data Portability Standard as well].

Compare core feature capabilities AND 'high frequency use' capabilities of available recurring providers. Core features might be: add-on support, upgrade downgrade + proration, customizable emails, API documentation + API behaviors, Push notifications for sync to your systems, free trials, coupons etc. 'High frequency use' aspects include reporting, data exports, third party integrations, account dashboard + common customer support functions (can you easily credit, refund, charge, modify info, upgrade/downgrade) from any customer account page. This is a critical aspect and most evaluations fail to consider what it will be like to actually 'live with' a vendor's solution.

Lastly, the payment processor options + combinations. Merchant Bank Accts - (We really like FeeFighters.com for helping entrepreneurs to choose a merchant bank).

Payment Gateways - Your payment gateway decision should be made not just on fees alone, but also consider the kinds of error fidelity you will receive (How many error/decline messages and what type of info is returned). Another important consideration is multi-currency support. Does your business need to accept many different kinds of currencies from around the world? (Dramatically improves conversions if you don't force your customers to pay in $USD). PayPal does a better job with currency conversion than just about any other gateway (For US companies). Some gateways will require you to be incorporated in each country you would like to accept currencies from..

Most importantly, talk to customers from your prospective recurring billing provider. The 'Net promoter score' opinions are very palpable across vendors. Don't just take the 'reference' customers provided by the vendors, but do your homework and you'll find quickly where the raving fans are.

Hopefully this was helpful, balanced, fair and objective.

-Dan

Re: Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

#57

We use Braintree's vault, and we use ActiveMerchant to access it. We wrote all of the recurring/billing/invoicing logic ourselves. Beyond the initial implementation, we've done one sweeping overhaul of the logic to make some improvements and simplify things after learning a lot from the first pass. We built it in late 2008, and either the companies that handled recurring stuff didn't exist when we were building it, o…

I did the same thing a while back; you might want to look into the actual braintree gem itself, it's pretty solid. AM is now (for BrainTree, anyway) a pretty simple wrapper on top of it: https://github.com/Shopify/active_merchant/blob/master/lib/a...

Thanks for the recommendation. Unfortunately, we've been with Braintree so long that we're on their original platform, and the gem only works with the new platform.

The migration to get on the new platform wasn't worth it for us right now. It definitely looks nicer, though, and I'm a little envious of those that signed up later and get to use it.

Re: Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

#58
post #43

I hate the construct that you must be a business in order to make money. Not only that, but you must be a reasonably-successful business. Talk about a chicken and egg problem. I'm trying to bootstrap a product that charges between $10-40/mo per user. Right now I have no users, but I hope to get a few over the next couple of months. What are my options? Do I have to incorporate in order to get a merchant gateway? Do I…

one option would be to let your early users help you test things out for free.. with chargify, you can set up your site and everything in test mode, without paying for anything (I believe) as you work out the kinks. then you flip the switch to go from test to "live" when you feel you'll be able to cover the monthly fees. Alternatively, you could do this, but charge your early customers via a simple Paypal recurring i…

Free is an option. You could also slap a big "Or Buy This Better Thing" button generated by PayPal somewhere on the signup page. Thats a better option.

Why?

Because, its a great way to A/B test if what you're hoping to sell will get traction even with one person.

Set the expectation for payment early, Dan Martell wrote a solid post on why this has worked for him in the past. If you give it away free with no expectations of payment, it de-values your product. So set the expectation of payment, slap a "Buy This" button ont there.

I sold 6 tea kettles once before knowing where to get them myself. I sent an email to 3 saying sorry were out of stock (fairly true). Then I searched the web for kettle distributors. Sent the email to other 3 asking if its ok if they are a few weeks late. All 3 sold, and several dozen since then. All from a Buy Now Button on a landing page.

Re: Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

#59
post #43

I hate the construct that you must be a business in order to make money. Not only that, but you must be a reasonably-successful business. Talk about a chicken and egg problem. I'm trying to bootstrap a product that charges between $10-40/mo per user. Right now I have no users, but I hope to get a few over the next couple of months. What are my options? Do I have to incorporate in order to get a merchant gateway? Do I…

Just use PayPal, especially if you bootstrap. Set up a recurring payments button and drop the HTML into a page. The IPN does the rest. Its simpler than you think: http://blog.awarelabs.com/2008/paypal-ipn-python-code/ If within your first month of operation you have customers changing subscription plans then worry about how to deal with it. Don't solve problems you dont have yet. If you don't have customers yet you'v…

I agree, that's what I ended up doing yesterday.

Re: Poll: How do you bill recurring payments?

#60
post #43

I hate the construct that you must be a business in order to make money. Not only that, but you must be a reasonably-successful business. Talk about a chicken and egg problem. I'm trying to bootstrap a product that charges between $10-40/mo per user. Right now I have no users, but I hope to get a few over the next couple of months. What are my options? Do I have to incorporate in order to get a merchant gateway? Do I…

one option would be to let your early users help you test things out for free.. with chargify, you can set up your site and everything in test mode, without paying for anything (I believe) as you work out the kinks. then you flip the switch to go from test to "live" when you feel you'll be able to cover the monthly fees. Alternatively, you could do this, but charge your early customers via a simple Paypal recurring i…

I worry about the scenario of building something that people are unwilling to pay for. Also the service can get rather resource-intensive so I can't afford many free users.
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