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U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

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Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#251

Post by katzgrau »

elliotec wrote: post #63
dranktoomuch wrote: post #20

Hey gang. I've been an HN member for a long time, fairly prominent Bay Area tech executive, rich in the sense of both bank accounts and family. Alcohol brought me to my knees in my late 20s / early 30s. It started out as the typical "social lubricant" to help a natural introvert be better at connecting with people and was wonderful at that - I was the life of the party. Over a decade it leaked into a "requirement" fo…

When did you realize it was too much? Number of drinks? Hangovers? What was "heavily" 3/4 nights a week? What precisely was the moment you were brought to your knees as you say?

Realizing it's too much and being brought to your knees are usually two different times.

"Realizing it" happens gradually after an established pattern of behavior. Usually, years. You're like, I seem to drink a lot more than everyone else and maybe that's not good. Eventually other problems kick in like sleep issues, anxiety, possibly weight gain - and the solution is always drinking because you stop worrying about it, or can at least say "well this is one of the last times." You realize that this is a bigger issue and then decide to stop, but something inevitably draws you back in. There's always something. And since you slipped back in, you somehow find your way to drinking as much or even more than you did. And then you realize the issue is even bigger - you've established a pattern of trying to stop and it never sticks, no matter how sincere you were in that moment of decision. No matter how much you poured down the drain. No matter how much you know that being sober is actually the good life and that your problems are much easier managed when staying away from drinking.

And after many attempts of this, trying and failing, but probably knowing that deep down there's a part of you that doesn't want to stop, you hit a point where you feel the worst you've ever felt in your life, hurt someone, or instigated another serious problem. And if you're honest, you know where it all started.

Then you are on your knees. Some people try to fix the problem themselves in earnest, some seek help, some stay in the cycle and break out down the road, and some stay in until the (statistically early) end.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#252

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

tigershark wrote: post #217
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be a huge benefit to society if we could find a (relatively safe from abuse) mechanism to treat people who are "functional" yet too mentally ill to stop their self-destructive behaviors. I'm not sure how that would/could work, but it's a worthwhile goal. There is a way. When I was lost, dealing with my own problematic issues with drinking, I found another path. Taking a single dose of LSD-25 made me examin…

Great, let’s give LSD to everyone instead of alcohol. /s

It's not about being given things. It's about earning them, earnestly.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#253

Post by whiddershins »

DanBC wrote: post #197
fsloth wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is - this is impossible to quantify. So basically, you are left with a binary decision - is it okay to overturn peoples civil liberties over arbitrary quotas or not. Personally - having suffered the devastation an addiction of a close relative causes in everyone around them - i would still prefer the current model where people are not forced to things against their will just because they drink too much alco…

(I'm in England so all of this is somewhat from an English perspective) There are roughly two camps when we talk about a human rights approach to mental health law, and they're not compatible with each other. The more mainstream version is to look at the UN Declaration of Human Rights, which flows into the EU Convention on Human Rights, which flows into national law. Under this system we can still have detention unde…

Wait, in the second case you can or can not force them to take medication against their will?

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#254

Post by thrower123 »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #27
dranktoomuch wrote: post #20

Hey gang. I've been an HN member for a long time, fairly prominent Bay Area tech executive, rich in the sense of both bank accounts and family. Alcohol brought me to my knees in my late 20s / early 30s. It started out as the typical "social lubricant" to help a natural introvert be better at connecting with people and was wonderful at that - I was the life of the party. Over a decade it leaked into a "requirement" fo…

How religious is AA?

Usually nauseatingly so, at least in my unfortunate court-ordered brush with the organization.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#256

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

relativeadv wrote: post #221
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking a bath as they say (my uncle used to do it until he developed cancer) is indicative of a problem IMO. When you wake up at 9 AM and start drinking, get drunk the whole day, sleep and repeat the whole cycle, that's when you definitively have a problem.

Yes and no. I know many people that would be well served if they removed this idea of, "Well, i can't be an alcoholic because i don't drink beer for breakfast" notion from their minds. I was never like that either, but I did use it as an escape at almost every opportunity I could. I would spend an enormous portion of my waking life rumination about alcohol and strategizing over how to get away with it. When will i st…

Sure, that is definitely a justification one can use. My point is that you need some reference point to compare your own behavior with. There are some people that should have never started drinking in the first place. That I agree with. It's a nexus of genetics and environment. A lot of it is influenced by cultural norms.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#257

Post by thrower123 »

The most interesting trend in alcohol of late is that a lot more of the abuse is coming from women than has historically been the case. Endless mimosa and bloody mary brunches and drinking a bottle or two of wine every night seems to be the main punctuation in the lives of most 20-something professional women that I know.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#258

Post by dpark »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #159
dpark wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must realize you’re describing relapsing alcoholic behavior, right? I would think this was sarcasm if not for the edit.

I think it's important to note that he describes a functional alcoholic. He seems to be managing his responsibilities and dependents without egregious carelessness. This is distinction is important to note so friends and families can identify regressions earlier and thus better manage the resulting behaviors. I don't support strict abstinence or the 12 stepsbut every addict needs a system thatcatches them well before…

> I don't support strict abstinence

This is a strange statement. Is this poorly phrased or do you actually think recurring alcoholics should continue endlessly drinking and relapsing rather than abstaining?

I also don’t think addicts should expect friends and family to be their guardrails. If you cannot drink in moderation without slipping into alcoholic behaviors, then it’s on you to stop rather than expect others to attempt to manage your addiction for you. It’s unhealthy, irresponsible, and inconsiderate to attempt to put that burden on others. Not only is this likely an ineffective strategy, but it drives others away.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#259

Post by [deleted] »

elliotec wrote: post #63
dranktoomuch wrote: post #20

Hey gang. I've been an HN member for a long time, fairly prominent Bay Area tech executive, rich in the sense of both bank accounts and family. Alcohol brought me to my knees in my late 20s / early 30s. It started out as the typical "social lubricant" to help a natural introvert be better at connecting with people and was wonderful at that - I was the life of the party. Over a decade it leaked into a "requirement" fo…

When did you realize it was too much? Number of drinks? Hangovers? What was "heavily" 3/4 nights a week? What precisely was the moment you were brought to your knees as you say?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#260

Post by ericmay »

dan-robertson wrote: post #224
sadfklsjlkjwt wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than blaming men for not living longer consider how much less is spent on treating and researching male health issues than female. For example in the UK boys were offered the HPV vaccine 10 years after girls. Yet during that period male death rates from HPV related throat cancer were comparable to female death rates from HPV related cervical cancer.

I don’t really buy this claim. I think there are also examples of this the other way round (eg endometriosis affects many women but little research was done into it for a long time and people were turned away being told they were just imagining their pain instead of being given a diagnosis). I don’t think I’m in a good position to guess at which sex is treated worse by medical research but I don’t think it’s obviousl…

I’m not sure medical research treats one gender better than the other - not something I have a strong opinion about.

But if the person you’re responding to is truthful, it’s odd that if the rates were similar why we only hear about one of the two groups being affected, isn’t it? I think if you search you can find a lot of these across both sexes, actually. I’m not sure what the cause of throat HPV is, but if it’s oral sex on women maybe that reveals a societies taboo. It’s so taboo that we are willing to let people die rather than admit it.

Anyway just a few thoughts as I was skimming the posts here.

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