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U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

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Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#191

Post by yibg »

I was always a drinker and quite into a few types of drinks but it wasn’t ever into problem drinking territory. There were some episodes of binge drinking during teenage years but mostly I’d drink when socializing but never had cravings for alcohol.

Several years ago I was going through a rough time in my life and started to have a drink when I go home from work. At first it was just a single drink maybe twice a week, but grew from there. Within a few months it grew into problematic territory. It never got to the point where it was interfering with other aspects of life and I didn’t ha e a physical dependency but I eventually recognized the issue.

Looking back it was clearly a coping mechanism. But the bad thing is how gradually it stuck up on me, and how long it took (About a year for me) to recognize it as a problem. The line I think is very much thinner than most of us think.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#192

Post by caspper69 »

jokowueu wrote: post #41
dranktoomuch wrote: post #20

Hey gang. I've been an HN member for a long time, fairly prominent Bay Area tech executive, rich in the sense of both bank accounts and family. Alcohol brought me to my knees in my late 20s / early 30s. It started out as the typical "social lubricant" to help a natural introvert be better at connecting with people and was wonderful at that - I was the life of the party. Over a decade it leaked into a "requirement" fo…

I know a functional alcoholic that drins a very large amount of alcohol but doesn't get drunk from it. He wants to stop but refuses to go through long PAWs. How long was it until you felt your normal self ?

> He wants to stop but refuses to go through long PAWs

As someone who's about to cross 4 years sober who was so stubborn he lost everything (a cardboard box would have been an upgrade), this is just f*cking hilarious. Boo hoo, he doesn't want withdrawal. Lol. Addiction doesn't work that way.

If they're a real drunk, and if what you say is true about him/her not getting drunk, they are going to have much more serious health problems than some PAWs. They are going to start having fatty liver, neuropathy, stomach problems, blah, blah, blah. Once it starts from heavy alcoholism, it doesn't stop until you stop or die. PAWs be damned. The only difference is the booze can and WILL kill you. That's one thing that the booze industry never tells you. Hell, people are still surprised to learn that alcohol is one of 2 or 3 substances where even the withdrawal can kill you. It's just not all fun and games even if you don't have the addictive alcoholic genes.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#193

Post by yibg »

likemybooze wrote: post #158

It seems very difficult to get reliable information about what constitutes problem drinking. I think the best answer might be “if it’s interfering with your life in ways that bother you, you have a problem.” I am what my doctor would term a “heavy drinker” since I probably average 20 units (10g by weight) per week. That’s two cocktails, or half a bottle of wine, or three beers, every night. I would say maybe once eve…

I used to need to have a drink with my meal too, dinner anyways. Having a cold beer or a cocktail with my food was just the best. For many reasons I’ve since stopped. I’d still have a drink with meals occasionally, especially if it’s a group event. But if I’m eating by myself or with my partner I almost never have a drink.

You know what? It hasn’t made a difference to my enjoyment of my meal. It did at first. Felt weird to have my food without a beer, but after the transition period it was just normal to not have one. This may be a part of the psychological dependency on alcohol.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#194

Post by kortilla »

sneak wrote: post #188
hn_drinking_ta wrote: post #72

Former heavy drinker here. I used to get very drunk about once a week (exclusively in social situations). I had to cut down on alcohol significantly few years ago, due to a health problem that came about unrelated to drinking. Now I get drunk maybe 2-3 times a year. I was disappointed that I didn't get any of the benefits I frequently found mentioned online. I didn't lose any weight, my skin didn't look better, my th…

AIUI, alcoholics don’t get drunk once per week.

Binge drinking is also alcoholism, even if it’s only once a week or even just once a month.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#195

Post by daseiner1 »

elfexec wrote: post #142
wjossey wrote: post #5

My father died in July of 2015 from alcohol, at the very young age of 60. He drank daily, and then slowly stopped moving due to other health issues related to back pain. After refusing rehab and other options, he eventually died at his home one evening. His drinking buddy was my step-mother, who followed an identical trajectory. Less than four years later, she died in the same spot of the house, in her late 50s. The…

> My father died in July of 2015 from alcohol, at the very young age of 60. Condolences, but come on. Since when is 60 "a very young age"? You could start collecting social security retirement benefits at 62. > Despite him committing slow suicide by alcohol We are all committing slow suicide. That's life. You think are you going to live forever? I'm assuming he drank all his life, so a 42 year "suicide"? > we were ad…

weird comment. spend the first half picking trivial semantic fights, then conclude with seemingly implying that the original commenter shouldn’t feel negatively about their father’s addiction. Odd

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#196

Post by eecc »

wjossey wrote: post #5

My father died in July of 2015 from alcohol, at the very young age of 60. He drank daily, and then slowly stopped moving due to other health issues related to back pain. After refusing rehab and other options, he eventually died at his home one evening. His drinking buddy was my step-mother, who followed an identical trajectory. Less than four years later, she died in the same spot of the house, in her late 50s. The…

Hi, sorry for the loss.

I know of similar circumstances and am wondering how much of alcoholism is caused by some other psychiatric condition.

Or perhaps pure idleness and boredom.

What do you do when you're a pensioner, you never cultivated lifelong learning so you're not equipped to take on a new challenge, there's no place in society for your residual skills? Maybe you kick back, relax, and pour a glass or two. After all, there's nothing else for you to do anymore.

Does alcoholism creep in at this stage?

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#197

Post by DanBC »

fsloth wrote: post #110
DanBC wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you have capacity to make a choice you should be allowed to make an unwise choice. People are asking how much capacity a person has if they are addicted.

The thing is - this is impossible to quantify. So basically, you are left with a binary decision - is it okay to overturn peoples civil liberties over arbitrary quotas or not. Personally - having suffered the devastation an addiction of a close relative causes in everyone around them - i would still prefer the current model where people are not forced to things against their will just because they drink too much alco…

(I'm in England so all of this is somewhat from an English perspective)

There are roughly two camps when we talk about a human rights approach to mental health law, and they're not compatible with each other.

The more mainstream version is to look at the UN Declaration of Human Rights, which flows into the EU Convention on Human Rights, which flows into national law. Under this system we can still have detention under mental health law, forced medication, and substituted decision making. But you do need some protections in place to prevent arbitrary detention and to give people a right of appeal.

The less mainstream view is to look at the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. Under this approach you cannot detain people under mental health laws, you can force them to take medication against their will, and you can only have supported decision making, you cannot have substituted decision making.

There's some discussion on the CRPD here: https://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/disability-...

https://www.un.org/development/desa/disabilities/convention-...

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#198

Post by whiddershins »

hooande wrote: post #128
dranktoomuch wrote: post #20

Hey gang. I've been an HN member for a long time, fairly prominent Bay Area tech executive, rich in the sense of both bank accounts and family. Alcohol brought me to my knees in my late 20s / early 30s. It started out as the typical "social lubricant" to help a natural introvert be better at connecting with people and was wonderful at that - I was the life of the party. Over a decade it leaked into a "requirement" fo…

Given your success, I'm surprised that you feel the need to remain anonymous. Is it only social stigma, or do you think that there would be business or professional consequences if people knew that you are an alcoholic in recovery?

That’s also an aa concept. It’s literally in the name. There’s something about print and interviews and such but I don’t recall the details.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#199

Post by bilegeek »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #177
likemybooze wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the studies or the ones that disagree? It’s been a few years now but I have. Time and time again the conclusion seems to be that the studies that say drinking is beneficial are screwing something up, eg the result is based on including very sick people who don’t drink because of their poor health, and these people die younger (and thus skew the results toward making it look like drinking increases longe…

Doubtful that this is a valid objection. On the flip side, you would have to also exclude people who drink and drive because they skew mortality stats in ways that are not applicable to those who drink but don’t drive. Also, studies on benefits are not just about pure correlation with longevity but various beneficial effects.

Even excluding violent and chemical death, the third cause is cancer. Alcohol is classified as a carcinogen by IARC[1], the WHO[5] and the CDC[2]. I'm not well read on the subject - nor particularly well researched - but a cursory glance shows metabolic byproducts as the main culprit, though there are other factors.

As to "beneficial effects", keep in mind that the trace amounts of something healthy would pale in comparison to the negative effects of the alcohol, which is much less of a trace chemical.

Plus, other lifestyle choices could give a false positive[4]. Stuff like eating properly and exercising might not be properly controlled for, giving an unrealistically rosy picture.

[1]https://publications.iarc.fr/62

[2]https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/alcohol/index.htm

[3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_and_cancer

[4]https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-red-wine-good-actuall...

[5]https://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/global_stat...

(The first page has a downloadable PDF. Didn't link directly because it auto-downloads, at least for me.)

EDIT: link formatting, removal of extraneous "keep in mind".

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#200

Post by Broken_Hippo »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #117
Akinato wrote: post #73

My entire family, outside of myself, has struggled with alcohol. I watched it turn them from brilliant, creative people into miserable wretches that avoided living life like one would an allergy. For every single one of them, they started out drinking heavily at parties. Then they would have a beer after work to 'relax'. Then two. Then four. Then six. And then their livers, marriages, and careers started to fall apar…

> It always amazes me that casual and habitual drinking is an accepted thing yes, everyone agrees drinking and driving is stupid, dangerous, and selfish. yet there are so many bars that are located such that nearly 100% of the patrons drove to/from the bar. Yes, some may have a designated driver, but I suspect many many simply drink and drive because they feel OK to drive and walking home isn't an option. I'm a 175 l…

"yes, everyone agrees drinking and driving is stupid, dangerous, and selfish. yet there are so many bars that are located such that nearly 100% of the patrons drove to/from the bar. Yes, some may have a designated driver, but I suspect many many simply drink and drive because they feel OK to drive and walking home isn't an option"

This has always irritated me. It isn't that the bars are located where they are: It is more that walking home simply isn't safe combined with the absolute lack of public transportation. I've seen some of these bars in places that don't even have taxis available - and honestly, even if they were I somewhat doubt patrons could afford the fare since most of the surrounding area was countryside.

To be fair, even living in the city where walking home is an option, actually doing so was a bad idea in the US. This is mostly because of public intoxication laws. On the other hand, I think some states have eased up on this because it seemed to encourage drunk driving. (Police in Indiana used to wait outside of bars for drunk people to come out of them).

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