Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force • Hacker News Board

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#271

Post by celticmusic » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 5:58 AM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #88

mrwebmaster wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On average, there is no hourly pay gap for unmarried women and men without kids. After they get married, there is an hourly salary gap, and this gap is even larger for married parents. As hours worked per day increase, the hourly pay rate also increases and married men spend much more time at their jobs (on average). Hourly pay also increases as experience increases. Married men with children spend more time at their…

This is the same reason I see trotted out by companies looking to defend gender imbalances; but the real issue is that the higher up you go in a profession, the less likely women are to be promoted. Even without kids. And these days in the US, "women with children" only get a few weeks off when they have children before having to return to work. Suggesting the difference in career outcomes is due to this time is ill-…

The poster you're responding to pointed out that on average, after children, men spend more time at their jobs than women.

It would seem to go without saying that implies all the top performers are going to be men, and if the system is performance based, that means the promotions will tend towards the men.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#272

Post by teclordphrack2 » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 5:59 AM UTC

TheBobinator wrote: post #267

danbolt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with Esther Perel's thinking[1] that the next century is going to involve a broadening on what society deems a positive life is for straight, cis men. In the same way that we consider it acceptable for women to express themselves or live differently than the gender roles of the past, I think we'll start to do the same for men. I already see this with my millennial or genZ peers. It's not uncommon to read comm…

Few things to be said here as I think this comment is unbelievably misguided. Much like how first wave feminism was a response to advanced in pressure vessels producing distilled alchohols, and second wave was a response to the obsolescance of muscle in manufacturing, so too is 3rd wave feminism the response to the key technologies of social media and contraceptives. We've replaced the concept of a couple investing i…

"a status symbol competition"

Real housewives of x city...??? I just don't get it! I feel autistic. You can really see how far we have fallen when this type of stuff turns people on, and not only does it make a buck but so much more.

How is it that people don't see the narcissism and immorality that is portrayed and profited off of.

I mean, how can someone like teresa and joe giudice get caught doing things with loan applications and financial fraud that lead to our(usa) economic implosion, yet they still have a viewership and profit off of this.

Sorry to rant but I have to. I have a therory and would like opinions. In a semi-perfect economic system all actors trying to start and run a business would play by the rules. In the system today we know people are not perfect. Some are flawed and make decisions they know are illegal because of the situation their companies are in. Others just want to be on top and will do what they can as long as the scales will tip in their favor in the end, ie fines are less than profit.

As the number of people increase and the market increases the number of actors who are willingly doing these actions becomes more and more. In the end the only ones on the top, the only ones with money, are the ones who are willing to take calculated risk that include breaking the law and the morals of the society they live in.

I claim we live in a time where the vast majority of those in power and those with money have gotten there by the use of illegal means.

If you look at the bush family their great grandfather ran drugs into china illegally. A lot of beer and hard liqueur companies started out during or continued during prohibition. Walmarts own Sam walton under paid employees and then when the feds said he had to pay them he threatened that any one that cashed the check would be fired.

They say with that the milk cream rises to the top, and that is true for a certain amount of time. If you wait longer it is the stench of rot and decay the comes to the top. A stable system will always be over taken by rule breakers, hacker, criminals, an immoralist.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#273

Post by celticmusic » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 6:05 AM UTC

burfog wrote: post #270

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, men decided to pay less for jobs often chosen by women.

Economically, that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. If a business pays employees more than the market rate, it will be less profitable and thus more likely to fail. If a business pays employees less than the market rate, it will lose employees to competitors and it is thus more likely to fail. Also, to say that "men decided" is pretty strange. It suggests a conspiracy, and it suggests that there are no women…

> Also, to say that "men decided" is pretty strange.

man-haters are allowed to post on HN.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#274

Post by danbolt » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 7:22 AM UTC

TheBobinator wrote: post #267

danbolt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with Esther Perel's thinking[1] that the next century is going to involve a broadening on what society deems a positive life is for straight, cis men. In the same way that we consider it acceptable for women to express themselves or live differently than the gender roles of the past, I think we'll start to do the same for men. I already see this with my millennial or genZ peers. It's not uncommon to read comm…

Few things to be said here as I think this comment is unbelievably misguided. Much like how first wave feminism was a response to advanced in pressure vessels producing distilled alchohols, and second wave was a response to the obsolescance of muscle in manufacturing, so too is 3rd wave feminism the response to the key technologies of social media and contraceptives. We've replaced the concept of a couple investing i…

To be honest, I’m a little confused about your response. There are a lot of points related to things like feminism as a dialectic, a “meat market” perspective about online dating, social unrest for single men, and trauma. I’m not sure how they connect as a rebuttal, if they are one.

My point was that I think society will broaden its view on what a good life for men looks like. I think it will help a lot of the difficult things you mention. I think people will eventually agree with your closing statement much more than they do now. Could you help me understand what you think I’m misguided about? I genuinely don’t understand.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#275

Post by watwut » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 7:57 AM UTC

jl2718 wrote: post #262

watwut wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdotal, but men I know have more expensive hobbies then women. Men are more eager to buy what they want while women save money more and feel bad about unnecessary purchases. Think gaming equipment, steam sales for games they will never play, flying, cars, tech, 3d printer and what not. Compared to that, feminine hobbies are few bucks once in a while.

Consumer spending is 85% female. https://girlpowermarketing.com/womens-purchasing-power/

That includes being "chief purchasing officer" at home - e.g. women buying things for whole familly including tv, furniture and electronics everyone will use. Someone has to do it.

That is not personal purchase on hobby.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#276

Post by Izkata » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 9:32 AM UTC

somebodythere wrote: post #202

magduf wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>perhaps in ways that men are expected to seem "confident" or "strong" or "independent" which I think can be stiffing. Yep, and women demand this too: many women's dating profiles talk about how they want a guy who's "confident but not cocky", who "makes a plan" for dates, who "takes the lead", etc. Basically, American women want hyper-masculine men who look like George Clooney (when younger), but then they sit aroun…

It is unfortunate that the range of clothing coded as masculine is not as expressive as the range coded as feminine. What kinds of masculine-coded clothing articles would you like to see?

Something that won't crush my balls when I sit down. If skirt-like or kilt-like, it would also be a lot cooler than pants in the summer, if it was acceptable in an office.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#277

Post by occamrazor » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 12:07 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #260

Bartweiss wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question, I just went digging. I found three big factors. First, the "labor force" has no age cap, so there are lots more women alive than men. Second, lots of adult men are in the military or prison, so equal numbers of jobs would mean higher male labor force participation. Third, "nonfarm payrolls" doesn't just mean nonfarm, and excludes more employed men than women. But there's one big issue with nonprofit l…

Why does being in the military matter? Why would men in the military not count as being part of the labor force? It's a job, that you get paid for. There are plenty of other government jobs that count as being in the labor force.

Active duty personnel is counted in labour force and as “participating”, however not as a “payroll” employee.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#278

Post by boomboomsubban » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 12:12 PM UTC

teclordphrack2 wrote: post #268

boomboomsubban wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It changed, there are still farm families.

There are still family farms BUT they are farms where you have multiple people in the family that have gone to university, even have masters, phd, law degrees, business degrees. They don't treat it as a family farm anymore. What people used to call a family farm year/decades ago is now more likely classified as a hobby farm.

They still have many members of their family working for a nontraditional salary, often including teens. The traditional family farm is gone, farm families are still a thing.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#279

Post by llampx » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 12:16 PM UTC

lidHanteyk wrote: post #259

shantly wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men's fashion is truly horrible compared to women's fashion. Men basically have the choice of either a stuffy suit that look like it hasn't changed in a century and is completely impractical, or baggy pants and a baggy hoody. Women get all kinds of choices in clothes, including lots which show off their bodies, while men's clothes are basically designed to hide our bodies completely and look as boring as possible.…

Sure. Women are limited to painted-on pockets for pants, while men get the entire gamut from painted-on leghuggers to many-small-knapsacks cargo pants. Right now, most men's fashion is terrible in terms of how it models the waist. Put on anything that you consider to be fashionable, and then see how well your hip-hinge and thighs-parallel squats do. No wonder the Scottish loved their kilts!

Women have a choice of what they want to wear. If they want to wear leggings with no pockets, they can. If they want to wear "boyfriend" cut jeans with exactly the same pockets as men, they can. If they want to wear a dress with pockets, they can.

A trip to a women's clothing store would disprove the notion that women don't have choices very quickly.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#280

Post by llampx » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 12:18 PM UTC

danbolt wrote: post #238

ewindal wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are too dependent on women and work for validation for «society» to allow a broader expression of the male gender role. Those who can’t get fullfilment through their job won’t get it any easier, and I don’t see women’s tastes in men changing much.

Women’s gender roles in society has changed a lot over the past century. Do you think the same could happen to men ever?

It hasn't happened yet. Meanwhile I feel like as a man I'm expected to be sensitive yet rugged, muscular yet not aggressive, strong but not a gym rat, have good skin but not use skin care products.