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Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

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Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#111

Post by kup0 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #75
kup0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that the amount of planning and self-discipline required is maybe what is sometimes neither practical nor maintainable, depending on the individual? Having lost and gained weight multiple times, it can be a psychological hell when it seems both the body and the mind are doing everything they can to fight against your discipline and planning and keep you where you are instead.

>>Is it possible that the amount of planning and self-discipline required is maybe what is sometimes neither practical nor maintainable, depending on the individual? In my personal endeavors I've found that the amount of self-discipline something requires is inversely proportional to how motivated I am to achieve the end result. If I'm being required or forced by an external circumstance, I end up needing enormous am…

I actually find it's the reverse of this for me. I'd almost rather be forced to lose weight at this point because then I think I'd have a better chance at accomplishing it.

Trust me when I say I want to lose weight but have started to succeed multiple times only to eventually fail in my internal battle of will

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#112

Post by lazyasciiart »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #80
lazyasciiart wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

REALLY? You would like to introduce the poster to the concept of "portion control" and "vegetables"? Did you skip reading his comment? You might as well respond to a comment about how long it takes to develop a new feature with a recommendation to learn keyboard shortcuts. How absurdly condescending can you get?

The grandparent comment didn't mention vegetables or portion control, which I'm sure the grandparent knew but it's fine to emphasize it. I think the parent comment to yours is fine, just re-emphasizing key points that the parent didn't explicitly state.

Yes, and the doctors and nutritionists he talks about probably didn't know about these incredibly basic concepts either? You might not know this but nutritionists are professionals who give people advice about healthy diets.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#114

Post by kup0 »

verisimilitude wrote: post #2

I'm a dentist who regularly treats OSA with dental appliances; they work by posturing the mandible forward with a maxillary and mandibular (two-arch) device as a way to increase the cross sectional area of the posterior airway, reducing apneic events -- but it is important to know that the gold standard remains the positive airway pressure (CPAP) device. I would also like to point out that I see an incredible amount…

Proper and adequate sleep is also an important part of weight loss, so I find it naive to only attempt to fix the weight issue.

It's a vicious catch-22 to not be able to breathe enough to sleep well enough to lose weight so that one can breathe in the first place.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#115

Post by kup0 »

DiffEq wrote: post #105
sneak wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If literally not being able to breathe isn’t enough, people being dickheads probably isn’t going to do it. Please think harder.

Well you don't have to be "a dick" to shame somebody. Just tell them the truth and help them realize the toll they take on society and themselves when they choose certain actions over others. When they come to realize and understand the truth they will feel the shame they ought to feel...and thus pay a small part of the cost to others that they have incurred. Do you believe that a smoker that has thrown a cigarette o…

It is likely that many people overweight are already ashamed and it helps absolutely nothing to attempt to further pile onto that negativity.

Sorry, but no amount of "truth telling" in this way will come off as anything but being an arse. I'm sure you have your own selfish actions and your own ways of "taking a toll on society". This post reeks of a special kind of arrogance, whether you intend it or not. Your flawed analogy makes it worse. Why not just equate it with smoking itself- instead of something like a house burning down?

It's far more complicated than "person does selfish thing and hurts society because of it". Your post speaks like someone that has never had to lose weight or break out of an addiction.

I don't say any of this to attack you but just how ridiculous and supremely unhelpful this line of thinking is. It's like telling someone to just snap out of depression, or "just stop smoking", or whatever. It's not as simple and devoid of nuance as you'd like to believe.

And trust me, as someone that has gained and lost weight both, the last thing that matters to me is something external and abstract like my effect-in-the-aggregate on society. I'm far more interested in feeling healthier, sleeping better, and gaining the personal benefits from it. The same goes for most people, I would think, and no amount of philosophizing about society will change that.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#116

Post by xazo »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #103
xazo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hear this and other fad internet diet stuff all the time I've been eating a lower carb diet with portion control for more than 10 years now with little to no exercise. I recently changed into a low carb diet. Over this 10 year period I lost 30% of my body weight. The only fad I've seen so far is the notion that practicing willpower and portion control while still eating sugar and carbs is a maintainable position.…

The vast majority of people no longer do manual labor for a living. And food used to cost a lot more. It's also possible that anti-smoking campaigns have had an effect since nicotine is a stimulant (which can suppress appetite) and reduces your sense of taste (making food less appealing), but that's probably a stretch.

I agree with all of your points. But there is more going on here.

Take a look at the top 5 strongest men in the world. They spend their days working out and probably burn more calories in a day than I do in a week. They have big, strong muscles that are covered over by a layer of fat. Same is true of many manual laborers today - landscapers, roofers, builders.

http://theworldsstrongestman.com/athletes/

Compare that to body builders (work out, eat lower carb/sugar) or concentration camp prisoners who are underfed (whether they do labor or are almost entirely sedentary).

https://www.google.com/search?as_st=y&tbm=isch&as_q=concentr...

https://www.google.com/search?as_st=y&tbm=isch&as_q=body+bui...

Comparing the groups (and my own experience) convinced me that eating (rather than exercise) is >80% of how much fat you will carry.

I'd say one of the biggest differences today is that sugar and carbs have become well accepted highly addictive drugs in our society. Feeling down? Go treat yourself to some ice cream! Is it any different with nicotine or heroin addicts?

I look at obese people in the same way that I look at nicotine or heroin addicts. It's not their fault, they're just normal people who are unfortunately caught in the tractor beam of addictive substances and they may not even know it. I didn't know it when I was a carbaholic. I thought I was fine -- didn't really connect my hangry episodes with withdrawal symptoms.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#117

Post by halostatue »

axaxs wrote: post #76
sdwa wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Losing weight is hard (speaking from experience), but ultimately it's still just a question of physics. Eat less, eat food which will fill you for longer (breakfast: porridge, lunch: fruit, nuts, etc.), and eat a reasonably healthy meal you've cooked each night. Meanwhile, eat smaller portions and do some exercise. Your body can't defy the laws of physics, so you will lose weight. It is that simple. Overthinking it a…

Not sure why downvoted, maybe a bit harsh...but this is the absolute truth. I'd argue that exercise itself doesn't even play a huge role, though it does help. Eat less calories until you start losing weight. I understand there are mental hurdles to this simple mantra, but its truth is unchanged.

And this doesn’t help when one’s body switches into “starvation mode” lowering one’s BMR making it even _harder_ to lose weight. One’s microbiome can also substantially affect one’s BMR.

Neither your comment nor your parent comment add anything except noise to this discussion.

Weight, health, and fitness are all _correlated_, but sometimes in ways that aren’t intuitive and that western society’s fat-shaming (of which the “just eat less” mantra is a prime example) completely misses the point.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#118

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

abstractbarista wrote: post #87
forthac wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same dismissive, ignorant, platitudinal advice that the parent commentator was directly referring to. I find it supremely hilarious that you refer to the person's own body as an external factor.

Thermodynamics doesn't lie. Operate at an energy deficit and I guarantee you'll lose weight. Is it going to feel horrible? Hell yes.

Thermodynamic doesn't lie... but it isn't even close to being the most important factor at work.

A Pound is 3,600 calories. I can easily eat 1,800 calories over my maintenance requirement.

Do you think in one year I am going to gain 180 pounds or .5 pounds per day?

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#119

Post by halostatue »

gfodor wrote: post #26
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd just like to chime in as someone who has lost and kept off about half his bodyweight, that yeah, losing significant amounts of weight is a very demanding undertaking. It requires a significant lifestyle change, large investments of time, is emotionally and cognitively draining, and to top it all off does not positively impact your quality of life nearly as much as is touted. To be successful at it requires a leve…

Is the main inhibitor just the sensation of hunger being miscalibrated with your calorie goals? Instead of using mind over matter, what techniques exist for eliminating the sense of hunger?

There’s also sometimes a lack of a particular chemical pathway that signals satiation (e.g., “I’m full, stop eating“). If this is what happens in one’s particular situation, one has to develop _other_ mechanisms to replace the signal.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#120

Post by Nomentatus »

The corollary, which I deal with a lot, is that allergies such as MCAS and other mast cell issues cause tongue edema with the same effect. Antihistamines (H1 and H2 blockers) can help in the short term but have severe drawbacks, such as interfering with melanin formation. Ginger and many antidepressants, such as elavil, are also extremely potent antihistamines.
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