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I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

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Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

#151

Post by elldoubleyew »

Seenso wrote: post #136
shadowgovt wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google hired a significant number of Chinese citizens and migrants who didn't leave China for political reasons. Not surprisingly, they tend not to see China's government policy as evil.

> Google hired a significant number of Chinese citizens and migrants who didn't leave China for political reasons. Not surprisingly, they tend not to see China's government policy as evil. It takes years in the right environment for someone like that to start to think differently. All kinds of important facts and ideas were kept from them, much of it random things that don't come up often that they may not even reali…

I don't understand this philosophy of "if only they could change their minds"

The current regime has broken records year over year and almost the entire population is happy with them. Chinese people are better off every single day. Who are we as westerners to say that our system of governance is better than theirs? How can you be so sure that their system will inevitably be bad for the people?

Just because an absolute right to say (almost) whatever you want is essential to the political philosophy of the west does not mean that it can/would mesh well in Chinese society.

I know you guys are going to want to crucify me for saying a lot of this but I work with a lot of people in mainland China and no one has any problems with the government, they stick to their own business and are doing pretty damn well. Obviously this could change one day but thats not our job as non-chinese citizens to decide.

Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

#152

Post by klyrs »

sk55 wrote: post #19

The timing of his change of heart seems politically motivated so I’d take a lot of what’s he saying with a grain of salt. He doesn’t disclose that he’s running for Congress in the article and it seems very convenient to share these opinions as soon as he’s running for office.

> The timing of his change of heart seems politically motivated so I’d take a lot of what’s he saying with a grain of salt.

Nowhere in this article do I see evidence of a "change of heart." He didn't suddenly quit to run for office. He fought for what he believed in, putting human rights above profits, until the culture changed so much as to axe him. It sounds like he's taking his wealth and prestige to the place he thinks he will have the most power: senate

Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

#153

Post by tmpz22 »

mrtksn wrote: post #109
virtuous_signal wrote: post #10

I don't have firsthand knowledge, but my conjecture is that the old Google probably had a significant % of employees who held the belief "We shouldn't censor for China, even if that makes us lose money". But over a period of years, whatever they selected for in hiring led to enough people joining, who don't give a damn about human rights in China, so the censorship went ahead. The only thing that stopped it was bad p…

And the change is probably for the better. I loved what the US ideals used to stand for but how ethical is to impose US ethics or laws on other countries even if it was possible? The Internet is no longer this network of bright individuals, it's part of society's fabric. In a few years, the US understanding of morality might change to Christian fundamentalism, gun culture, anti-vaxxing, respect to the authority, anti…

Our country literally once deposed a democratic government over the business interests of a banana company. My only hope is that historians are unbiased enough in the future to clearly mark the United States of America as the bad guys.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars#American_fruit_com...

Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

#154

Post by escape_goat »

I don't know what the policy of Hacker News here, but this article is NOT attributed to its author and is "sourced" from the essay the author had published on Medium a few days prior. To me this suggests that the article might not have been reproduced here either by or with the permission of the author.

To be fair, I don't assume that there's any especial reason that Medium rather than 'Write As' deserves the traffic that the article might generate, but on the other hand as a way to bump traffic to your own website, republishing a popular article without permission seems a little sketchy.

Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

#155

Post by michalu »

Yes, Google isn't "don't be evil" anymore. People forget that what's left without Google is Microsoft, Oracle and the likes whose business strategy is outright racketeering.

Today I wanted to check out one of the services by Oracle - (Datafox), on the page it promotes free trial, just sign up for Oracle Cloud, give phone number, credit card all details ... after all is verified there's no service, you have to pay the says customer support rep. Can I delete my account and all the data I just gave you? No you can't, they'll stay here forever, you can upgrade to paid if not you're having this account.

At least Google gave away tons of cool technology free (TensorFlow, Chromium etc etc etc)

Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

#156

Post by enriquepablo »

Aperocky wrote: post #43
virtuous_signal wrote: post #10

I don't have firsthand knowledge, but my conjecture is that the old Google probably had a significant % of employees who held the belief "We shouldn't censor for China, even if that makes us lose money". But over a period of years, whatever they selected for in hiring led to enough people joining, who don't give a damn about human rights in China, so the censorship went ahead. The only thing that stopped it was bad p…

> ethical sense Define that. For regular people in China, does the addition of Google with some censorship make their life better? Does it improve information flow over existing domestic search engines? I think the answer is obvious. People subscribe to overly simplistic thinking - if something is not perfect, it must be the worst. I see a lot of people promoting sanctions on a country because of government. Who gets…

> For regular people in China, does the addition of Google with some censorship make their life better? ... I think the answer is obvious.

I think the answer is obvious, but in the opposite sense you imply. Google acts as a window into the universe. Not the only one, of course. But if you have a window into the universe that lies to you about the universe (and of course, assuring you that I will tell you everything that is important, and then omitting certain important things, is lying), it is best for you to be without it, and rely on whatever windows you have left.

Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

#157

Post by hinkley »

hinkley wrote: post #123
logicIsTruth wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that one of the FAAN +M companies is using social media to make Google's reputation go down.

I felt slighted by their interview process and experience a little schadenfreude. From what I gather a lot of other people have the same salt. It’s the biggest reason I tell people to be magnanimous in interviews. You may need to interview them again in three years, or their friends. You don’t want them to tell you to fuck off, or worse, talking about you behind your back to their peers. There’s a company in Seattle…

It’s also why I strongly discourage 1 on 1 interviews. If I’m in a room with a coworker I know how they treated the candidate and they know how I did. There’s feedback to be given, adjustments to be made. Without that you can’t tell if one interviewer has low success rates due to beig really picky or being a dick.

The second guy I talked to at Google was such an asshole that I doubted my read on the other three people. It shakes you, and me in particular. I have a problem with saying no to all offers on the table, which shows up as self-sabotage in interviews. I don’t want to work with you, so I’m not going to try to convince you to want to work with me. It would be better for me to stick with it and get comfortable just saying no to all bad offers even if that’s all the offers I have. Least objectionable has won out a time or two and I’ve always paid for it in the end.

Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

#159

Post by PureParadigm »

billfruit wrote: post #114
ff317 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's obvious that some information is numerically greater than no information, it's not obvious that a censored flow of information makes anyone's life better than the alternatives. When the information flow is all-or-nothing (either you get the full uncensored fire-hose, or you get nothing and whole sites/services are blocked due to censorship), the citizen at least knows they're being censored, and then the b…

But such actions may end up punishing/restricting the individual citizens than the particular states. Also I don't think that posturing that may lead up to another Cold War is good for the world. Perhaps there can be greater understanding between peoples through a process of engagement, rather than standing-off. There is a famous commencement speech by Solzentzyn at Harvard, that laments why the West, esp Americans h…

There is an important distinction between Chinese culture and the policies of its unelected government. Since they are unelected, the policies of the CCP don't always represent the will of the people or Chinese culture.

When a government is unelected, it needs to show its legitimacy through strength. This means censoring anything that would make it look weak. Censorship is simply a political tool by the CCP, not a cultural practice that deserves respect.

In fact, you could argue that political censorship is the actual enemy of Chinese culture. Historically, China has had a rich history of political theory and thought, but now any views that go against the party line are repressed.

Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations. Here’s Why I Left

#160

Post by wonnage »

virtuous_signal wrote: post #10

I don't have firsthand knowledge, but my conjecture is that the old Google probably had a significant % of employees who held the belief "We shouldn't censor for China, even if that makes us lose money". But over a period of years, whatever they selected for in hiring led to enough people joining, who don't give a damn about human rights in China, so the censorship went ahead. The only thing that stopped it was bad p…

> who don't give a damn about human rights in China

I don't think this is limited to China. Google has no qualms surveilling on behalf of the US government either.

But it's not really a matter of ethical sense. Google is big enough that everyone has a bone to pick with something Google does. Conversely, people can find a way to justify anything. So when anything you do is ethically wrong (in 2020, as long as one person with a twitter following thinks so, it's Wrong), and anything you do is also ethically justifiable (in 2020, as long as one person with a twitter following thinks so, it's Right), ethics isn't really how you make decisions anymore. It's just a matter of how much money will we make, will we get sued, and who's gonna manage PR.

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