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Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

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Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#41

Post by john_moscow »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #10
verisimilitude wrote: post #2

I'm a dentist who regularly treats OSA with dental appliances; they work by posturing the mandible forward with a maxillary and mandibular (two-arch) device as a way to increase the cross sectional area of the posterior airway, reducing apneic events -- but it is important to know that the gold standard remains the positive airway pressure (CPAP) device. I would also like to point out that I see an incredible amount…

I'd just like to chime in as someone who has lost and kept off about half his bodyweight, that yeah, losing significant amounts of weight is a very demanding undertaking. It requires a significant lifestyle change, large investments of time, is emotionally and cognitively draining, and to top it all off does not positively impact your quality of life nearly as much as is touted. To be successful at it requires a leve…

Some bits of personal advice:

1. Try eating more vegetables (tomatoes, cucumbers, coleslaw, but watch for the sauces). They do a wonderful job a filling the stomach, but they would give you like 20x less calories than bacon or fries.

2. The weight you see on the scale is a combination of your fat, liquids retained by the body, food in your pipeline, etc. Based on my personal experience, the non-fat part (that goes away in the 1st week of dieting and easily gets back) can be up to 10-12 lbs. You need some model to account for it when watching your weight, otherwise it gets pretty depressive.

3. It's tough to keep high-calorie foods off every single day and it's tough to diet for weeks in a row. Having a moderate diet for 1 week every month, while eating a bit over for the rest 3 weeks is much more tolerable than the extremes.

4. Do portion control. The subjective pleasure we get from the food scales logarithmically with the amount, the calories scale linearly.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#42

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

john_moscow wrote: post #8
verisimilitude wrote: post #2

I'm a dentist who regularly treats OSA with dental appliances; they work by posturing the mandible forward with a maxillary and mandibular (two-arch) device as a way to increase the cross sectional area of the posterior airway, reducing apneic events -- but it is important to know that the gold standard remains the positive airway pressure (CPAP) device. I would also like to point out that I see an incredible amount…

>In reaction to that, it is important to understand that for many people weight loss is neither practical nor maintainable and for that reason it is critical that we continue to advance our treatment of things like sleep apnea. Sorry, but I have to call BS on that. Having lost ~50 lbs last year (after my blood pressure started getting scary), I can tell you it's all about planning and self-discipline. You plan a diet…

> Sorry, but I have to call BS on that. Having lost ~50 lbs last year (after my blood pressure started getting scary), I can tell you it's all about planning and self-discipline.

Ah, I see, you have the highest possible qualifications in the medical field!

> instead of giving them a strong motivation to resolve the underlying cause.

OK, so, please explain, then, how you treat, for example, various thyroid problems that are the underlying cause for increased body weight and that no real treatment is known for? Given that you are so highly qualified as to call bullshit on a medical professional, you sure will be able to offer more than telling everyone who has superficially similar symptoms to yours that they are too stupid to cure themselves because they don't do what you have done?

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#43

Post by sdwa »

issa wrote: post #23
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd just like to chime in as someone who has lost and kept off about half his bodyweight, that yeah, losing significant amounts of weight is a very demanding undertaking. It requires a significant lifestyle change, large investments of time, is emotionally and cognitively draining, and to top it all off does not positively impact your quality of life nearly as much as is touted. To be successful at it requires a leve…

I couldn't agree with this more. It is possible for me to lose and keep off weight if I literally devote all my energy towards it. It's important to remember that everyone is different. Some people would struggle to gain 100 pounds, others could do it easily, and most people understand that. But for some reason when it comes to losing weight instead of gaining, understanding goes out the window.

Losing weight is hard (speaking from experience), but ultimately it's still just a question of physics. Eat less, eat food which will fill you for longer (breakfast: porridge, lunch: fruit, nuts, etc.), and eat a reasonably healthy meal you've cooked each night. Meanwhile, eat smaller portions and do some exercise. Your body can't defy the laws of physics, so you will lose weight. It is that simple.

Overthinking it and coming up with horse shit reasons why it's totally fine to eat the amount you're eating and blaming some external factor (e.g. one's body) is the problem.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#44

Post by xazo »

blackearl wrote: post #19
1MachineElf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you accomplish your weight loss while working manual labor 64hrs per week?

No one doing manual labor for 60+ hours a week is morbidly obese.

I don't know about morbidly but have definitely seen many manual laborers that would be considered obese.

If you want to be thin, spend >80% of your effort in the kitchen. If you want to be strong, join a gym.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#45

Post by viro »

soperj wrote: post #37
verisimilitude wrote: post #2

I'm a dentist who regularly treats OSA with dental appliances; they work by posturing the mandible forward with a maxillary and mandibular (two-arch) device as a way to increase the cross sectional area of the posterior airway, reducing apneic events -- but it is important to know that the gold standard remains the positive airway pressure (CPAP) device. I would also like to point out that I see an incredible amount…

> In reaction to that, it is important to understand that for many people weight loss is neither practical nor maintainable So you're saying that even though the obesity epidemic is an entirely new thing, that there's no way that these people can lose weight and keep it off? It might require a lifestyle change, but saying it's not possible because change is hard is bullshit.

what if your current life situation doesn't allow you time to go to the gym or spend any time at all meal planning??

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#46

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

gfodor wrote: post #26
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd just like to chime in as someone who has lost and kept off about half his bodyweight, that yeah, losing significant amounts of weight is a very demanding undertaking. It requires a significant lifestyle change, large investments of time, is emotionally and cognitively draining, and to top it all off does not positively impact your quality of life nearly as much as is touted. To be successful at it requires a leve…

Is the main inhibitor just the sensation of hunger being miscalibrated with your calorie goals? Instead of using mind over matter, what techniques exist for eliminating the sense of hunger?

As another poster said: stimulants. Ephedrine is one of the easiest to acquire that has reasonable potency, but I caution that a) there are negative consequences to stimulant abuse and b) you do become resistant (and eventually dependent). I have tried it for protracted periods of time but it was ultimately unsuccessful at lowering the difficulty.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#47

Post by elric »

verisimilitude wrote: post #2

I'm a dentist who regularly treats OSA with dental appliances; they work by posturing the mandible forward with a maxillary and mandibular (two-arch) device as a way to increase the cross sectional area of the posterior airway, reducing apneic events -- but it is important to know that the gold standard remains the positive airway pressure (CPAP) device. I would also like to point out that I see an incredible amount…

As someone with OSA - and a busted TMJ, so no mandibular advancement for me -, let me tell you: CPAP sucks.

Sure, you die slower, you snore a hell of a lot less, and you feel more rested and energized. That's all (truly, no snark) great.

But it sucks. Spontaneous sleepovers become impossible. Travel becomes a chore. Sleeping with bedfellows now comes with a noisy attachment. You have to rent or buy a relatively expensive machine. You have to get annual checkups, and you have to give up a fair amount of privacy to prove you are complying with the therapy... Not that much fun.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#48

Post by philsnow »

gfodor wrote: post #26
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd just like to chime in as someone who has lost and kept off about half his bodyweight, that yeah, losing significant amounts of weight is a very demanding undertaking. It requires a significant lifestyle change, large investments of time, is emotionally and cognitively draining, and to top it all off does not positively impact your quality of life nearly as much as is touted. To be successful at it requires a leve…

Is the main inhibitor just the sensation of hunger being miscalibrated with your calorie goals? Instead of using mind over matter, what techniques exist for eliminating the sense of hunger?

Coffee suppresses my appetite pretty well. When I do intermittent fasting, I allow myself to drink as much coffee as I want and I have no trouble making it to dinner before hunger becomes distracting.

You might have to drink a _lot_ of coffee though because there's a lot of hours between morning and dinner. I have a coffee maker that brews right into an vacuum carafe (which keeps it hot up until dinner time) and I also have a yeti mug that keeps a single cup of coffee warm for ~1-2 hours, which helps me nurse fewer cups throughout the day.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#49

Post by specialp »

I'm not surprised by this. When one gains weight, it is distributed pretty much everywhere. I gained 25 lbs from a sedentary lifestyle that many of us on this site have from our jobs. I lost it, and snoring/acid reflux went away completely.

If you go pick up a 25 lb ham hock or something like that you will notice the volume it takes up. Fat is even less dense so it takes up even more volume. Sure, it does deposit in some places more than others like the waist line, but even things like my ski boots fit me different. They were previously too tight for several seasons so it wasn't just that they broke in. So all that fat is being deposited all over, and some of that is in your tongue, and I'm sure in your soft palate.

I notice a lot of talk about fat shaming here and how telling people just to diet isn't going to solve the problem. This is all true, but is irrelevant really to the conclusion here. Losing weight is a good way to reverse things like sleep apnea and acid reflux along with many other problems. So if one can do it, it is the best way to do it. Not all people with sleep apnea will be cured by losing weight but it goes a long way for many.

Re: Effect of Weight Loss on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The Importance of Tongue Fat

#50

Post by djsumdog »

verisimilitude wrote: post #2

I'm a dentist who regularly treats OSA with dental appliances; they work by posturing the mandible forward with a maxillary and mandibular (two-arch) device as a way to increase the cross sectional area of the posterior airway, reducing apneic events -- but it is important to know that the gold standard remains the positive airway pressure (CPAP) device. I would also like to point out that I see an incredible amount…

Weight affects so much more though. It's not just sleep apnea, but heart disease and diabetes as well. Any type of surgery risk is greatly increased by obesity.

Look at history. Even for people working desk jobs, Americans were much less obese than they are today. It's a systemic problem. Go into any gas station and try to grab a snack without sugar. It's difficult to impossible. We have more sugar and starch in our food today. I agree it's not necessarily a personal problem. It's a problem with the entire food industry and access to cheap sugar.

It's starting to affect people in other western countries too and we are missing a lot of education about the dangers of starch and sugar.

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