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For suicide prevention, try raising the minimum wage, research suggests

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Re: For suicide prevention, try raising the minimum wage, research suggests

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A max wage is insane government overreach. If I want to make a deal with someone else where I’ll work to do something and in return they pay me a portion of the surplus value I create, there is no justification, moral or economic, to cap that amount. Moreover, price ceilings have a rich and long empirical and theoretical argument against their existence in the economics literature https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pric…

Cases like the Manhattan project team are rare. Cases like grossly overpaid managers and executives in FIRE industries are common.

But what defines overpaid? You? If there is an opportunity to not over-pay, you should be able to start your own firm and put overpaying ones out of business.

...Of course, we can actually be even more clever than this, if we want, and imagine models where we are both right (of course they might not be true).

For example, we might say the value provided by a manager is, on average, $1,000,000. However, this is driven mostly by the top 10 percentile who are worth $10,000,00 a year, whereas the median is actually slightly overpaid. We can justify this distribution by adding uncertainty on the signal. A more thoughtful model of this quick example exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_(economics)#Job-mar...

So the next question would be: What is more likely? That people are overpaid, obviously, and the government needs to stop it? Or the market is behaving optimally under complex uncertainty, and the government, being no better at interpreting signal than these firms themselves, is likely just to make things more complicated and screwed up by entering? (I'll leave this as an exercise to the reader, but if you want to solve it formally follow the journal articles in the link I shared above).

Re: For suicide prevention, try raising the minimum wage, research suggests

#232

I wonder what would happen to the suicide rate with medicare for all, and creating a max-wage that is (avg of contractors + employees * 150), or something similar, w/ additional 'bonus' multipliers for increasing # of U.S. hired. UBI would also probably help. As a freelancer I've had some really slim months and depression hits hard when money is tight. There's a very direct correlation between income security, insecu…

I think a max wage totally makes sense, because nobody is more than a modest constant times more productive than anyone else, and anything created by a person is always built on existing knowledge and constructs created by society. Also, risk does not really exist anymore these days (with minimum wages, financial constructs around bankruptcy, etc.)

> because nobody is more than a modest constant times more productive than anyone else,

Having met people causing net negative productivity, this is pretty hard to believe. Why do you expect this to be true?

Re: For suicide prevention, try raising the minimum wage, research suggests

#233

Minimum wage: if you can't produce $X/hr in value, you're prohibited from producing at all. I suspect raising that cutoff would increase suicides.

Real world data disagrees with your suspicion. Might want to rethink your reasoning.

Re: For suicide prevention, try raising the minimum wage, research suggests

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... who would never work for 0 themselves, even though their own work arguably provides little tangible value.

Exactly. People won't work for less than their worth. So a minimum wage doesn't accomplish much except set a price floor that excludes low value add workers from the economy.

> People won't work for less than their worth.

People do it all the time. When their basic needs (food, health, shelter) aren't being met, they'll take whatever work they can. It doesn't mean they're getting their true worth out of that work, it just means they're getting screwed by their employers who are taking advantage of their need to pay them less than they would otherwise.

Re: For suicide prevention, try raising the minimum wage, research suggests

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But by contrast, the UK and it’s NHS has almost half the rate of the US.

Where are you getting your facts from? The UK has a higher than global average, with some demographics tragically high. UK – 11.2 per 100,000 people – in 2018 ( https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/03/suicides-rat... & https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... ). I think the UK's Office of National Statistics is a better source of information that Wikipedia. UBI is a great idea. Unfortun…

This was my off the 2016 WHO numbers, 13.7 per 100K in the US vs 7.6 per 100K in the UK:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide...

But your correct that we should probably go by the individual countries’ statistics, where the UK is slightly above the average compared to other developed countries and the US a good amount above it.

Re: For suicide prevention, try raising the minimum wage, research suggests

#236
post #93

I wonder what would happen to the suicide rate with medicare for all, and creating a max-wage that is (avg of contractors + employees * 150), or something similar, w/ additional 'bonus' multipliers for increasing # of U.S. hired. UBI would also probably help. As a freelancer I've had some really slim months and depression hits hard when money is tight. There's a very direct correlation between income security, insecu…

There is nearly a 2x difference in rate between white and native americans vs blacks, asians and hispanics. I'm wondering if there is a good understanding of that difference. I don't think it is just economic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States#/...

If you're going to disaggregate, by sex is the major axis. If the gap reversed, it would likely become one of the greatest issues to solve, whatever it took.

Re: For suicide prevention, try raising the minimum wage, research suggests

#237
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many things were invented or financed because someone wanted to get rich? What happens to those types of things when it's impossible to get rich? The answer is they don't happen here, they'll happen somewhere else. They may happen with the same people even, and then you're losing knowledge and experience to other countries, which is fine as long as those other countries choose to be friendly with you. In other wo…

>How many things were invented or financed because someone wanted to get rich? Not as many as you think I would suggest. In the US a golden era of invention was the postwar era during which inequality fell and the American middle class rose to power and the American government still participated actively in shaping innovation and economic future. Even the Soviet Union invented a good deal of stuff. Today economic gro…

Every other developed economy was destroyed by the war. The rise of the middle class here was a result of overall economic growth and the economic suicide of the two world wars and the depression. Holding up the 1940's and 1950's as a model removes the context of cataclysmic world events of the 30's and 40's. Also remember that the US had virtually no welfare state at that time and used higher taxes to pay off war debt.

Re: For suicide prevention, try raising the minimum wage, research suggests

#238
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always makes me chuckle when people cite health care being inefficient as a reason to let the government run it. (Not saying you're doing that, you just reminded me of it)

What is chuckle worthy about the government running healthcare? Plenty of countries have good government run healthcare system. Several studies have found that patients on Medicare are generally more satisfied with their healthcare than patients with private insurance. Government can run health care.

The us has low governmental capacity and lower trust then most other nations. We don't have a clear view of sovereignty between state and federal and have the most active judicial system in the world.
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