Okay so how do I get a cheap e-scooter? Or will they just trash the still-working hardware?
Check into police impoundment and auctions in your area.
Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
91–100 of 342 posts
Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Why did the VCs value these as billion dollar companies? Desperation? Because VCs get paid from selling the shares to the public. So as long as a general unsophisticated investor is expected to buy in, it's a good deal for a VC, even if the underlying business model is laughable.
While never having been on one due to no helmets being provided, in Denver and in Dallas and in Austin they arguably revolutionized the city core and how younger people get around. For better and worse. And while not fully diligent on this, isn't Uber still not profitable on a unit economic basis? And they are mature and public. Perhaps that statement isn't true but it provides one justification for investing in scoo…
You are correct about Uber not being profitable. They’re burning cash quickly. And if you look at market performance, they’re not where they expected to be. Furthermore, they’re fighting things like employee unionization (See California) which will increase their cost.
And Uber is fundamentally different. It’s not seasonal, and the costs fall mainly on drivers rather than the company.
Investors are hopeful on Uber, but I bet if a scooter company tried to go public right now, it would get eaten alive.
Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
#93Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…
I can see personal e-scooters as being a great alternative to cars for short trips such as commuting less than 5-ish km to work, or taking the kids to school. However, I still think bicycles are vastly preferable. With a pannier rack you get quite a bit more cargo space, and in the winter, the fact that you're physically exerting yourself helps to keep you warm, which makes for a more comfortable and pleasant trip. Also, the whole "Lithium batteries aren't supposed to be operated below 10C" situation limits e-scooters' value for a large chunk of the year in temperate climates.
The for-hire e-scooter market continues to seem to me like a novelty more than a realistic transportation option. My city's recent e-scooter pilot program hasn't done much to dispel that notion. People used them quite a bit in the first few weeks, but, by the end, most the scooters were obviously going all day without being used.
Also, the whole "last mile" argument started seeming a lot more hollow once I realized that, by the time I got to the busy areas where e-scooters were being placed in the mornings, I was already 75% of the way to the train station. More like "last block". And, at least when they were being used, I'd have to walk well out of my way to find one to use on the way home, too, because they were scattered all over the neighborhood as a result of their normal and intended usage pattern. So, they didn't seem to be much of an effort saver going in either direction.
All that said, I'm guessing that they were being highly valued because of the very low barrier to entry for the market. A fleet of e-scooters is presumably quite a bit less expensive to purchase and maintain than a fleet of docked rental bikes. What got lost in the shuffle was the fact that the dock, while it might seem like an unnecessary annoyance, is actually a big part of what makes those rental bikes pleasant to use.
Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
#94Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…
I think it's a profitable market if you survive the competition. You build the moat by petitioning the government to force licensing (like docked bikes do) and then enjoy the monopoly pricing. There's a natural advantage to being the same guy serving lots of markets so then you're fine.
Whatever happens electric scooters are here to stay. They will be the future of urban last mile transportation.
Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
#95The VC funded scooter rental companies don't bear the most significant cost of scooters, public health. Quality studies outlining the risk and costs are scarce, but there are some:
https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Health...
Key points: 15% of scooter riders who seek medical attention have a traumatic brain injury. This doesn't include those transported by EMS. 63% of injured riders had ridden an scooter 9 or more times before.
Perhaps e-scooters are safe in some markets, but in many they are a death trap that the vendors will never have to pay for.
Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
#96Curious how many of the scooter-haters in this thread drive cars daily. In my experience they're a huge boon to walkable, car-free or car-lite lifestyles, and all but useless in the suburban parking-minimum wastelands that characterize most of the United States' postwar built environment.
Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm surprised that it was warmer climate cities that underperformed in the US, because I would have expected those to have a much better chance for profit, as cold winter seasons dramatically reduce scooter usage. Too much competition? I was surprised about this too. Though, from my anecdotal experience, there are a ton of micromobility companies operating in San Diego.
I recently visited San Diego and was absolutely blown away by how many scooter companies were operating there, and how many unused scooters I saw lying around.
There’s a ton in Denver that’s for sure.
Bird, Lime, Uber/Jump, Razor, and Lyft just off the top of my head. There’s pretty much at least one or so parked on every corner in the downtown area.
Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
#98Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…
The bike vs. scooter thing is interesting (although a non electrified scooter would NOT be a good idea, much harder than biking a comparable distance with a weirder, less efficient motion). I think that objectively a bike is a much better option for longer trips like this. Both in terms of efficiency and safety. I'd be VERY surprised if on a per mile basis, scooters weren't much more dangerous than bikes. However, sc…
Copenhagen has plenty of novice (i.e. tourist) bicycle and scooter riders.
I'm confident that, regardless of "feeling", bicycles are the better option for pretty much all tourists/novices who can ride one. It's much, much more stable at all speeds. Scooter riders wobble when starting off, wobble when going at a reasonable speed, wobble when stopping and struggle with turn signals.
On the other hand, even very young children on unpowered kick scooters tend to have pretty good control.
Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
#99Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…
I wonder if the benefit is to shop owners in the area where scooters work. My reasoning: Scooters are a replacement for walking. Shop owners depend on foot traffic. If you can generate foot traffic by reducing the time cost, you can increase shop visits.
I do recognize a number of holes in this logic, for instance: is scooter traffic comparable to foot traffic?
Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100
#100The VC funded scooter rental companies don't bear the most significant cost of scooters, public health. Quality studies outlining the risk and costs are scarce, but there are some: https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Health... Key points: 15% of scooter riders who seek medical attention have a traumatic brain injury. This doesn't include those transported by EMS. 63% of injured riders had ridden an…
> 15% of scooter riders who seek medical attention
This statistic is meaningless without a base rate.