Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100 • Hacker News Board

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#61

Post by jarcoal » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

ASinclair wrote: post #30

TacticalTable wrote: post #18

Of the e-scooter startups I've tried, Lime is my favorite. In my smaller city (Indianapolis) we just have Bird and Lime, and Bird's restrictions on hours, locations, and parking make them very difficult to use (They turn themselves off if they leave their range, and many pieces of downtown are considered 'out of bounds'). Meanwhile, the Limes are better distributed around the city, easier to park, and have much more…

> I'm surprised that it was warmer climate cities that underperformed in the US, because I would have expected those to have a much better chance for profit, as cold winter seasons dramatically reduce scooter usage. Too much competition? I was surprised about this too. Though, from my anecdotal experience, there are a ton of micromobility companies operating in San Diego.

I recently visited San Diego and was absolutely blown away by how many scooter companies were operating there, and how many unused scooters I saw lying around.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#62

Post by snuxoll » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

jxramos wrote: post #9

vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

I see a ton of Ninebots during my commute, seems like more and more people choose to own. Even folks at my company own various escooter variants.

I don't drive, don't even have a license - my Ninebot Max has been the best purchase I've made to my personal freedom of movement living in the suburbs of a city with lackluster public transit.

Intercity bus routes only run M-F, so to go 10 miles downtown I have to get the whole way by myself. I can bike, but even if I were in better shape I would still be quite sweaty and exhausted by the time I make that trip. My scooter gets me the distance in an hour comfortably and I don't feel like I need to change after I arrive.

You would think making a long trip like this and standing up for an hour would be a pretty terrible experience, but I've been quite comfortable with it as well as 3 mile trips to the office when required, etc.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#63

Post by wil421 » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

Good riddance from Atlanta. The City had to start fining people to get the scooters off the sidewalks. When I worked in midtown I’d have to step over scooters lying on the streets.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#64

Post by Reedx » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

It seems that a lot of VC is a multivariate ponzi scheme of sorts, which might explain some of it. If they're making fees regardless, then they just need to show/push fast initial growth to attract more layers of investment and it doesn't necessarily need to make long term sense.

Chamath Palihapitiya describes this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVVsdlHslfI

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#65

Post by bhandziuk » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

bransonf wrote: post #23

ourmandave wrote: post #2

That's a blow. There's not a lot of companies employing divers in the gig economy.

Sarcasm? The vast majority of gig-jobs are driving. Ride share and delivery make up the obvious lion’s share of gig work.

divers. Like for getting bikes and scooters from lakes and rivers when the drunkards toss them over a bridge.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#66

Post by wufufufu » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

> Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive

Citation needed, at least to convince me. I think they could significantly bring down the cost at scale (production/maintenance wise at least).

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#67

Post by FartyMcFarter » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

Thank $deity. I'm tired of seeing these humongous bikes taking up space on sidewalks, and threatening to fall onto unsuspecting people and animals.

Here's hoping they fail in other markets as well.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#68

Post by texasbigdata » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

john_moscow wrote: post #49

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

>Why did the VCs value these as billion dollar companies? Desperation? Because VCs get paid from selling the shares to the public. So as long as a general unsophisticated investor is expected to buy in, it's a good deal for a VC, even if the underlying business model is laughable.

While never having been on one due to no helmets being provided, in Denver and in Dallas and in Austin they arguably revolutionized the city core and how younger people get around. For better and worse.

And while not fully diligent on this, isn't Uber still not profitable on a unit economic basis? And they are mature and public. Perhaps that statement isn't true but it provides one justification for investing in scooters

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#69

Post by fabioborellini » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

If it is impossible to run a profitable e-scooter rental service even with the current terms, imagine how much money the companies would burn if they could not externalise the costs of accidents to riders' insurance companies and taxpayers (in locales with public healthcare).

In my home town the scooters have almost exclusively been used to replace walking. They have not reduced the market share of other means of motorised transport. People walk less because of scooters. There has been a notable amount of broken bones and even a few cases of severe brain trauma suffered by riders, and taxpayers end up paying for everything.

So I could argue that all the effects on the society have been negative.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#70

Post by hinkley » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

cnorthwood wrote: post #29

hinkley wrote: post #15

Leaves 12 markets and lays off 8 people per market? For a company with a physical product and inventory, 8 people per city seems like somewhere in the neighborhood of sobriety, possibly verging on stingy. Not the sort of excess we so often find in a tech company that is experiencing layoffs.

They may also have "independent contractors" to do the work

Ah, right. That does skew those numbers quite a bit.