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Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

phys.org

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Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#41

Post by mrandish »

I was at a holiday party and some guy was telling me all about the exciting life extension breakthroughs he was reading about in mass media. I tried to explain that, while exciting, what works in mice models is highly unlikely to directly scale into humans and that making progress against aging is very probably a "wicked" problem.

I pointed out how many headlines we saw in the 80s about a "cure" for cancer being just around the corner. Yet, cancer turned out to be a "wicked" problem. We've made exciting progress and reduced cancer mortality for nearly 30% in the last 25 years but there's been no "cure".

Sadly, no one wants to hear that.

Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#42

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

tomrod wrote: post #27
djif wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insulin signaling (IIS) and TOR pathway (a central regulator of mammalian metabolism and physiology)

That was my question -- what is IIS and TOR? What does it mean to modify them?

Have a read of these two regarding TOR - Target Of Rapamycin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTOR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirolimus - particularly the research section

Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#43

Post by melling »

saiya-jin wrote: post #37
melling wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re kidding, right? These conversations frequently tend to devolve into a long discussion about the negative on hacker news. In fact, 3 years ago I wrote that this story should be banned from HN: https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2017/03/28/stories-that-should-... “Death gives life meaning” “It’ll only be for rich people” “The money should be spent on something better.” If we spent as much time trying to solve the prob…

So you wrote your opinion on some blog... doesn't make it any more relevant than any other opinion, here, there, anywhere. This is a public forum. Death is an interesting topic, plenty of people are scared shitless of it, regardless of their beliefs. Many wish that they would be that special spark that will live almost forever, ideally young, but god forbids that everybody else with them gets the same chance (simple…

I wrote it in a blog so I don’t have to keep repeating myself. The conversation is basically the same every time.

I also addressed your common complaint that there are more important things to work on.

Having the same conversation over and over again with the same result probably qualifies under the “definition of insanity”

Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#44

Post by mrandish »

est31 wrote: post #23
raxxorrax wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many orthopaedists in my circle tell me that with all the office work we probably should be glad if we die with 60. These approaches focus on cardiovascular system and general cell renewal, but I guess there are just a few more steps until immortality.

Yeah, aging involves breakage of multiple things in people's bodies. There is no single switch to fix them all. Instead they have to be fixed one by one. To the joint problems you are mentioning: we are already replacing various joints and bone parts in the body. The solutions aren't perfect though, there are risks of infection, death by septic shock, people often have pains, etc.

Agreed. I try to explain it to my family by pointing out the most likely proximate causes of death in old age: A) cancer, Alzheimer's, B) heart disease, C) organ failure, etc. Solving "aging" means we don't just have to solve A, B or C but rather 'All of the above'. Much harder.

Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#45

Post by phkahler »

mrandish wrote: post #41

I was at a holiday party and some guy was telling me all about the exciting life extension breakthroughs he was reading about in mass media. I tried to explain that, while exciting, what works in mice models is highly unlikely to directly scale into humans and that making progress against aging is very probably a "wicked" problem. I pointed out how many headlines we saw in the 80s about a "cure" for cancer being just…

>> Sadly, no one wants to hear that.

There are also people who dont want to hear that change may be possible.

Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#46

Post by patcon »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #28
patcon wrote: post #22

Surprise, a counter-argument on hacker news! :) Why does it seem no one worries about what we might break in humanity by disrupting the evolved pattern of death. It's a network characteristic selected for in living system, and very few creatures have survived into our epoch without developing the capacity to die. It's literally an evolved feature of our lifecycle and our existence within this web, and it terrifies me…

Perhaps if we had many more years of useful life we’d learn to take more care because we’d live to see the long term results of our choices.

I truly love the optimism, but even our experiences in democracy don't seem to support this. [1]

Plus, does what you're saying even feel true in your own life now? Does knowing something in your youth make you a louder or better or more powerful advocate in a far future. Slow catastrophies are a human blind spot, and I lack your confidence that extending our individual window from 80 to 120 years would make us better able to grapple. Especially considering that those additional 60 years are going to have a much more stubborn and formed and fully-convicted mind piloting the body around.

[1]: Ch 6 of "Democracy for Realists", "The Specious Present" https://books.google.ca/books?id=M4m9DgAAQBAJ&printsec=front...

Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#47

Post by titzer »

at_a_remove wrote: post #34
patcon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Sorry, realizing I avoid clicking into these most times, so just finally did now and saw nothing but boosting (and I unfairly generalized). If i understand, you feel that death is a curable condition, and not an evolved adaptation of a population within living networks? I guess i just find it difficult to conclude that death, an evolved trait for 99.999% of lifeforms, esp ones like us (with its uncountable tr…

If you have a way to brush aside death, do share with us. So far as I can tell, nothing about the attempts have been cavalier. Fortunes have been squandered, tears wept over the fresh graves of the beloved, lives were focused in an all-consuming passion, and so forth. The subject has already been rendered not cavalier by the agonies of our past. We haven't a "skip death" button to press. Chesterson's fence, which you…

> Evolution is not wise, evolution is not careful, evolution did not plan or reason for that fence. Evolution also gave us susceptibility to diseases, revolting parasites, defects of birth, and an often tragic fragility. Shall we preserve those as well? After all, they must be there for a reason.

Copy. Mutate. Select. Simple algorithm, remarkable results. Incredibly robust to failure.

I think you do yourself a disservice thinking this way about the process that gave rise to you.

Edit: and I didn't even read your whole comment.

> Evolution gave us allergies which cause people to asphixiate and clotting disorders which have children bleeding out from a casual scrape. Blindness, gangrene, arthritis: this is the wisdom of evolution.

It also, apparently, gave us breathtaking ignorance. No wait, that was human society.

Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#48

Post by seer »

mrandish wrote: post #41

I was at a holiday party and some guy was telling me all about the exciting life extension breakthroughs he was reading about in mass media. I tried to explain that, while exciting, what works in mice models is highly unlikely to directly scale into humans and that making progress against aging is very probably a "wicked" problem. I pointed out how many headlines we saw in the 80s about a "cure" for cancer being just…

There's some really exciting research going on around ageing (and cancer as they are quite related) recently. I'm someone very far outside the field, but as far as I can tell we're starting to understand cancer (and ageing) on a much deeper molecular machinery kind of level. Combined with epigenetics it really does look quite doable to extend lifespans of humans as well. I mean there have been techniques known for millennia - fasting, exercise, saunas etc.

What's changing now is that we're starting to understand _how_ those things are actually working under the hood, not just spraying chemicals and hoping something changes.

At least that's what I've gathered reading through https://lifespanbook.com/faq/

Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#49

Post by agumonkey »

BatFastard wrote: post #29
raxxorrax wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many orthopaedists in my circle tell me that with all the office work we probably should be glad if we die with 60. These approaches focus on cardiovascular system and general cell renewal, but I guess there are just a few more steps until immortality.

As someone who is 62, I am glad I am still alive! I feel good, think clearly, and enjoy life. Some people are old at 60, but I think that is less and less common as work and health habits improve. I see many peoples health go south after 80, but I have a 102 year old friend, and he was great thru his late 90s. 100s have been a bit rougher...

I'm shocked when I see some 90yo people. Some of them are not worse mentally than a 40yo. Good genes I suppose (genes that also made the guy want to swim regularly all his life).

Re: Scientists identify pathways that extend nematode worm lifespan fivefold

#50

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

patcon wrote: post #46
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps if we had many more years of useful life we’d learn to take more care because we’d live to see the long term results of our choices.

I truly love the optimism, but even our experiences in democracy don't seem to support this. [1] Plus, does what you're saying even feel true in your own life now? Does knowing something in your youth make you a louder or better or more powerful advocate in a far future. Slow catastrophies are a human blind spot, and I lack your confidence that extending our individual window from 80 to 120 years would make us better…

To be honest, I probably agree more with what you’ve written than what I wrote.
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