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Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

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Re: Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

#141

Post by oblio »

rjzzleep wrote: post #107
dustinmoris wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have a direct line to Seattle, and parts of what we ring up at tickets have made it into the global 365 infrastructure. This is great for one business, but bad for the whole of businesses IMHO. Microsoft shoehorns every little thing into their products, never asking themselves if they should . As long as they think they can they will. This leads to stupid things like Durable (aka stateful) Azure Functions. Durab…

Microsoft is here to stay mainly because once you got your foot in the door at the big companies you will stay forever. The reasoning is indeed since we already have Microsoft guys Azure will fit us well but in practice none of these Microsoft guys will be able to help you on any Azure issue. So when Azure is involved in a big corp, accenture is usually not far behind. The experience with the solutions this doom duo…

I like AWS, but AWS EFS has the same problem. They've improved it a bit through some recent changes, but it's not much better.

The way it would work: they gave you absolutely pitiful base IOPS credits for EFS and everything else was related to disk space used. So more disk space used (and paid), more IOPS. After that they'd completely detroy your IOPS if you used up all the credits. By destroy I mean IOPS at the level of a HDD from 1995.

I set up a Jenkins using EFS and initially it went well. It barely had any activity and after about 2 weeks it used up all the credits. After that even the login page would take 20 seconds to load.

Re: Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

#142

Post by spydum »

rjzzleep wrote: post #107
dustinmoris wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have a direct line to Seattle, and parts of what we ring up at tickets have made it into the global 365 infrastructure. This is great for one business, but bad for the whole of businesses IMHO. Microsoft shoehorns every little thing into their products, never asking themselves if they should . As long as they think they can they will. This leads to stupid things like Durable (aka stateful) Azure Functions. Durab…

Microsoft is here to stay mainly because once you got your foot in the door at the big companies you will stay forever. The reasoning is indeed since we already have Microsoft guys Azure will fit us well but in practice none of these Microsoft guys will be able to help you on any Azure issue. So when Azure is involved in a big corp, accenture is usually not far behind. The experience with the solutions this doom duo…

That sounds like exactly like AWS though doesn't it? EFS iops scale with data size allocation.

Re: Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

#143

Post by kakoni »

moksly wrote: post #7

I work for a Danish municipality with roughly 10,000 employees. I’m not sure if you know, but our public sector has been competing with Estonia at being the most digitised in the world for a decade. We operate an estimated 300-500 different IT-systems, some of them enterprise sized SAP solutions deployed on old IBM mainframes with multiple layers of APIs to make their fronts somewhat web-based (don’t ask). Others are…

What sort of tech-team do you have btw? Inhouse? (Or should I say inmunicipality;)

Re: Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

#144

Post by fulafel »

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #91
polskibus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this scale, why not invest in your own datacenter, since you already have a lot of servers to maintain? I understand you have to use Office 365, but what is the value prop of Azure to you beyond that ?

I say this as someone who used to firmly agree with this position, but in the last year my mind has been changed without reservation. The time where this was a good idea has genuinely passed. There is no earthly way that any reasonable organization will be able to provide even the security that is present by relying on a large-scale cloud provider. There is no way they will come out on top money-wise either. The big…

This varies by case - Office365 phishing breakins have been a bad epidemic for a long time now and the anti-phishing measures have not kept up well enough. I think MS still doesn't support any phishing resistant 2FA method there...

Re: Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

#145

Post by fuzzy2 »

goatinaboat wrote: post #82
peterbozso wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ex-MS employee, Azure consultant here. I don't have any experience with AWS or GCP other than some very trivial, getting started stuff. But I really don't think what you say is true. While most of the stuff in Azure has a very familiar feel and intuitive interface (either on the UI or the API level) if you are coming from a MS background, there are still glaring exceptions and you certainly need experienced/certified…

Yes you always need skilled people but the path from on-prem Windows guy to Azure guy is much shorter and easier than the path from say on-prem Red Hat guy to AWS guy.

I don’t think so. If you’re just spinning up a Windows VM then yes, your Windows guy can take it from there. But that’s not cloud computing. That’s just a “server”. To really use Azure with secured applications using databases, logging, storage, auto-scaling, ...

I don’t see how being a Windows guy makes Azure easier to grasp. It’s mostly not even Windows you’re interacting with.

Re: Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

#146

Post by eeZah7Ux »

vidarh wrote: post #129
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this as someone who used to firmly agree with this position, but in the last year my mind has been changed without reservation. The time where this was a good idea has genuinely passed. There is no earthly way that any reasonable organization will be able to provide even the security that is present by relying on a large-scale cloud provider. There is no way they will come out on top money-wise either. The big…

I have literally never seen a setup where cloud came out less than ~twice the cost of dedicated hosting. I have seen instances where dedicated hosting comes out cheaper than putting your own equipment in a colo, but even that depends on being in a location where energy and property prices (and so colo rental costs) are high. And this does factor in devops - when doing consulting I earned consistently more (because of…

It's amazing how people fail to see that public cloud is the equivalent of a hotel.

It's far cheaper than buying a house... in the short term.

Cloud providers are not getting hardware, datacenters, electricity and labor for free. You are still paying for it.

Re: Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

#147

Post by sheeshkebab »

flyinglizard wrote: post #19

As a hobby I thoroughly enjoy, I help my father’s company catch up with the 2020’s through creation of various online services for their products (which are in the agricultural tech sector). They already use Microsoft stacks internally so Azure was a natural extension. The combination of C#, Visual Studio and Azure Functions to create serverless cloud systems (together with Azure SQL Server, Azure Redis, Azure IoT an…

It’s really not about IDE with these cloud environments, but production workloads.

The difference with aws is that it’s actually used to run Amazon’s core business and so it’s super stable for production workloads (or at least has enough of workarounds to get it to a very stable environment).

Azure is more of a prototype environment, and gcp is something in between.

Re: Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

#149

Post by sciurus »

oblio wrote: post #141
rjzzleep wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is here to stay mainly because once you got your foot in the door at the big companies you will stay forever. The reasoning is indeed since we already have Microsoft guys Azure will fit us well but in practice none of these Microsoft guys will be able to help you on any Azure issue. So when Azure is involved in a big corp, accenture is usually not far behind. The experience with the solutions this doom duo…

I like AWS, but AWS EFS has the same problem. They've improved it a bit through some recent changes, but it's not much better. The way it would work: they gave you absolutely pitiful base IOPS credits for EFS and everything else was related to disk space used. So more disk space used (and paid), more IOPS. After that they'd completely detroy your IOPS if you used up all the credits. By destroy I mean IOPS at the leve…

I think it's throughput credits that EFS gives you (e.g r/w MiB/s), not IOPS. AFAIK they don't document the IOPS available at all.

In my experience the latency for an individual i/o operation on EFS is always at the "HDD from 1995" level regardless of available burst credits. Something that does lots of small random I/O like checking out got repos on Jenkins workers is basically worst case for EFS.

https://docs.aws.amazon.com/efs/latest/ug/performance.html

Re: Azure has an edge over AWS at big companies, Goldman Sachs survey says

#150

Post by peterbozso »

fuzzy2 wrote: post #145
goatinaboat wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you always need skilled people but the path from on-prem Windows guy to Azure guy is much shorter and easier than the path from say on-prem Red Hat guy to AWS guy.

I don’t think so. If you’re just spinning up a Windows VM then yes, your Windows guy can take it from there. But that’s not cloud computing. That’s just a “server”. To really use Azure with secured applications using databases, logging, storage, auto-scaling, ... I don’t see how being a Windows guy makes Azure easier to grasp. It’s mostly not even Windows you’re interacting with.

Exactly this.
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