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The senatorial governance of Bitcoin: making (de)centralized money

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Re: The senatorial governance of Bitcoin: making (de)centralized money

#321
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CompatBlocks is just one of the developments that BCH has completed and released wtf. man, stop taking credit for other people's work. Compact blocks were completed and released by Matt Corallo, myself, and the other Bitcoin developers at the time long before BCH existed. It had absolutely no involvement from any BCH developer. > many doubt that his company is supporting Bitcoin vs handicapping it When your link in…

Compact block were heavily inspired by Bitcoin Unlimited's "Thin Blocks".

It is another untruthful claim.

The original design document for compact blocks is was published (and last modified) on Dec 25, 2015. https://people.xiph.org/~greg/efficient.block.xfer.txt

The earliest work for Bitcoin Unlimited's "Thin Blocks" was on Jan 10th 2016: https://bitco.in/forum/threads/buip010-passed-xtreme-thinblo...

Both were motivated by an earlier effort by Bitcoin developers Matt Corallo and Pieter Wuille, https://buildingbitcoin.org/bitcoin-dev/log-2013-12-27.html#... (which Pieter had implemented, but was found to not work so well, https://buildingbitcoin.org/bitcoin-dev/log-2013-12-28.html#...).

The fact that in Bitcoin we took the time to fully think through, write a clear and complete specification https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0152.mediawi... , and thoroughly test and review the implementation before deploying it while BU has been occasionally abused by the BU organization and their supporters to dishonestly claim that compact blocks came later (or were somehow derived) from their work.

Users on the sidelines were easily deceived by this marketing because BU rushed their implementation into production while Bitcoin took a more deliberative process.

BU's "thinblocks" implementation was, in fact, severely flawed both due to an implementation vulnerability that resulted in almost every BU node on the network being crashed near simultaniously, and due to a design error introduced because BU's "chief scientist" strongly believed that it was computationally intractable to produce a collision in the first 64-bit of transaction IDs (a sha2 hash), even though one can be computed on a fast desktop computer in seconds.

In fact, Bitcoin Cash developers went so far as to attempt to block the deployment of compact blocks by falsely claiming that it would somehow "disrupt the network": https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4xkqbk/core_intends_to... (It didn't.)

So the history is that: Bitcoin developers proposed and tested an idea for faster block propagation using filters and found it lacking. Later, it came up again as a possible way to mitigate segwit's bandwidth increase, so I wrote a design to address the known issues and we started working on implementing it. A few weeks later BU developers picked up the old work and started improving it. Within a couple months they had it deployed it in public and announced 'mission accomplished', but their deployment was unspecified and ultimately faulty. As a result of those issues and the superior relay latency of compact blocks thinblocks was replaced in the Bitcoin Cash network with the protocol from Bitcoin.

There is no common protocol feature in BU's xthinblocks that wasn't also in Bitcoin's original work that inspired both efforts. There could have been no influence on compact blocks' design by xthinblocks because it would have been physically impossible for there to be due to causality. That hasn't seemed to stop BU developers and people like you from repeating this lie.

Cheers.

Re: The senatorial governance of Bitcoin: making (de)centralized money

#322
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning protocol addresses that. You can make millions of transactions per second [1]. Quite a lot of crypto sites are already supporting it and wallet support is increasing too [2]. [1] - https://lightning.network [2] - https://blog.bitrefill.com/top-11-lightning-network-wallets-...

Why is an additional layer of complexity an improvement? Why not make bitcoin blocks 10x larger and 10x more frequent? The argument that "only large entities will be able to keep up with that" doesn't really hold - thats the status quo already.

It's not. Don't believe the comparisons to other technology. Lightning is an IOU system that does not scale with users.

Re: The senatorial governance of Bitcoin: making (de)centralized money

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning requires that both sender and receiver be online at the same time to transact. Lightning was not ready when Bitcoin capacity was crippled by the aforementioned tiny cabal of developers in favor of Lightning. Lightning remains unready, forever 18 months away from the promised usable technology.

Lightning also requires funds recipients to monitor their channels continuously, to make sure they're not closed early with obsolete balances. At least you can pay someone to do that for you.

Lightning is basically digital third-party checks.

There's a myriad of reasons people don't buy things with third-party checks.

Re: The senatorial governance of Bitcoin: making (de)centralized money

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clarifications (this comment perpetuates some common misconceptions): - A single bitcoin "transaction" can actually have thousands of inputs and thousands of outputs. So energy "per transaction" or "transactions per second" is not analogous to a typical monetary transaction. - Bitcoin does not compete with literal credit card transactions (although some use it like that today). I'd compare Bitcoin on-chain transactio…

> Bitcoin does not compete with literal credit card transactions That's, like, just your opinion. For a lot of people it competes just fine. > Credit card transactions happen on a higher level in the financial stack. As does cash How so? As far as settlement is concerned, a cash transaction is pretty much exactly like a bitcoin transaction (and quite unlike a credit card transaction).

>That's, like, just your opinion. For a lot of people it competes just fine.

Until it doesn't. A payment network is graded on how it handles disputes, not regular transactions. Bitcoin can't do refunds or chargebacks, making it rife for fraud.

Sure, you can implement escrow, but then it's no longer competitive like GP said.

Re: The senatorial governance of Bitcoin: making (de)centralized money

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning Network is not peer to peer which is what most of us signed up for with bitcoin. I don’t want centralized middlemen and their channels, might as well use a bank at that point. Lightning Network isn’t simple and elegant, it is a convoluted mess. The peer to peer foundation of bitcoin is literally in the title of the white paper from Satoshi. Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/…

Comparing the lightning network with a bank is totally incorrect. Your funds cannot be seized and the middlemen privacy aspect is very similar to the Tor network. I don't think there is a better way of solving a decentralized payment system.

Lightning is the same as writing a check. Until it's verified on the bitcoin network, it's just like a bank in that regard.

Re: The senatorial governance of Bitcoin: making (de)centralized money

#326
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and lightning does the same. The other bitcoin nodes that route your messages are not a trusted third party, no more than the bitcoin nodes that relay your transaction when you transmit it any time you use Bitcoin. Wrights comments on topology are technobabble and largely meaningless, so it's difficult to say something about them... however, to the extent that we can assign any meaning at all to them don't you n…

Unlike the base layer, the LN uses source routing: which was abandoned years ago. Requiring the endpoints to know the structure of the network graph leads to intractable routing problems at scale.

Not a problem if you don't intend to have nodes sufficient to actually be considered "at scale" and your plan from the very beginning is a centralised hub and spoke network.

Re: The senatorial governance of Bitcoin: making (de)centralized money

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... it justifies restricting the chain throughput even further ... Yes. There might come a time when block reward is miniscule, volume of transactions is too low to support mining at reasonable level, and the only way to incetivize the miners will be to reduce block size. > already resulted in 50+ USD transaction fees as an actual result Briefly. And 50$ is not an unreasonable fee if you are transferring hundreds o…

> Yes. There might come a time when block reward.. And if artificial scarcity to increase miner revenue is not only not objectionable but desirable as well as entirely effective, there is no reason that this should not be done repeatedly, and right now. Of course, that's not actually true, and that's why it's not happening. The argument is invalid. > Briefly. And 50$ is not an unreasonable fee In a competitive free m…

I'd like to comment here just to say that you're my hero.

Signed,

Another Bitcoin early adopter who became totally disillusioned with the BTC/Bitcoin Core project due to precisely the BS you've highlighted in this thread

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