Battle of Alesia • Hacker News Board

Re: Battle of Alesia

#31

Post by gfodor » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

nemo1618 wrote: post #11

Reading this made me realize how little Roman history I know. What's the best source for learning about the major people and events of that era? EDIT: I guess what I'm really looking for is a hierarchy of topics, starting extremely broad (e.g. Roman Republic vs. Roman Empire) and drilling down into individual people and events. In other words, I want to do a breadth-first traversal, rather than depth-first.

I enjoyed the Great Courses Rise of Rome course (which can be listened to audio-only). Covers the founding of Rome up until the first Roman emperor.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#32

Post by zozbot234 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

boudewijnrempt wrote: post #22

srge wrote: post #3

In France, this event is well known and taught in class (at least it was in the 80's). As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. As a result we were colonized and we lost almost all our Celtic culture (Celtic culture remains present notably in Bretagne…

No. You are not a descendent of "celts" who lived what is now "France". Your culture wasn't lost. Any Celtic culture that might have been present in France in pre-Roman times has nothing to do with you or your ancestry. It was not "your" culture. The Celtic culture in Brittany is not something that survived from pre-Roman times, it's a later re-import from the British isles. Stop making up silly, false, fake identiti…

> Stop making up silly, false, fake identities.

The irony of course is that "Celtic" is a silly word to begin with. There's plenty of circumstantial evidence that the 'Celtic' culture of Gaul was reasonably similar (and quite close in cultural 'ancestry') to Roman culture anyway, making assimilation relatively painless. The British isles may have been a somewhat different case.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#33

Post by JoelMcCracken » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

RmDen wrote: post #23

See also Hardcore History Episode 60 The Celtic Holocaust https://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-60-the-celtic-hol...

This is what prompted me to post this, I was listening to it and thought yinz might like it

Re: Battle of Alesia

#34

Post by hrktb » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

srge wrote: post #3

In France, this event is well known and taught in class (at least it was in the 80's). As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. As a result we were colonized and we lost almost all our Celtic culture (Celtic culture remains present notably in Bretagne…

It’s always funny how the Franks are seens as “us”, when looking throught history France has been washed by waves of invasions that all left deep cultural mixes.

Going to Normandy nowadays and looking at general public exposition it’s make pretty clear their ancestry is mostly from the Vikings and Nords.

In the east it’s also clear that their frenchness is a fluctuating and partial attribute.

All around the country, each region have a very clear multi-cultural past. And Paris and its periphery is a huge Petri dish of people coming from around the world with a significant number of families that have no ancestors that were in France more than four or five generation ago.

Books still present Franks as french people’s ancestors, but I wonder how teacher make it match with the reality when they teach their students.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#35

Post by JoelMcCracken » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

hooande wrote: post #19

serious question, how is this interesting beyond "Caesar had a significant cavalry advantage"?

The siege works.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#36

Post by chimeracoder » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #27

boudewijnrempt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You are not a descendent of "celts" who lived what is now "France". Your culture wasn't lost. Any Celtic culture that might have been present in France in pre-Roman times has nothing to do with you or your ancestry. It was not "your" culture. The Celtic culture in Brittany is not something that survived from pre-Roman times, it's a later re-import from the British isles. Stop making up silly, false, fake identiti…

That's not really how conquest works though. At least some of those original Celts reproduced with the Romans, and thus some genetic heritage continued.

> That's not really how conquest works though. At least some of those original Celts reproduced with the Romans, and thus some genetic heritage continued.

That's not really how nations or ethnic groups work, though. The fact that some "genetic heritage" from the Celts may be found today doesn't actually mean that Celtic culture has anything to do with the modern nation-state of France.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#37

Post by adamch » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

nemo1618 wrote: post #11

Reading this made me realize how little Roman history I know. What's the best source for learning about the major people and events of that era? EDIT: I guess what I'm really looking for is a hierarchy of topics, starting extremely broad (e.g. Roman Republic vs. Roman Empire) and drilling down into individual people and events. In other words, I want to do a breadth-first traversal, rather than depth-first.

The Masters of Rome novels by Colleen McCullough are historically accurate, incredibly dramatic, gripping and realistic. They tell the story of Rome from the birth of Caesar in the Republic to the ascension of his successor Augustus in the Empire.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#38

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

srge wrote: post #3

In France, this event is well known and taught in class (at least it was in the 80's). As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. As a result we were colonized and we lost almost all our Celtic culture (Celtic culture remains present notably in Bretagne…

[deleted]

Re: Battle of Alesia

#39

Post by PeterCorless » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

srge wrote: post #3

In France, this event is well known and taught in class (at least it was in the 80's). As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. As a result we were colonized and we lost almost all our Celtic culture (Celtic culture remains present notably in Bretagne…

Reminder: the Franks were Germanic invaders who kicked the Romano-Gaulish in the teeth. This is like Englishmen mourning King Arthur and his Romano-British followers, ignoring that their ancestors were probably more the Hengests and Horsas of the story.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#40

Post by PeterCorless » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #13

srge wrote: post #3

In France, this event is well known and taught in class (at least it was in the 80's). As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. As a result we were colonized and we lost almost all our Celtic culture (Celtic culture remains present notably in Bretagne…

"To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire; and where they make a desert, they call it peace."

Tacitus.