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Battle of Alesia

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Re: Battle of Alesia

#21

Post by doc_gunthrop »

nemo1618 wrote: post #11

Reading this made me realize how little Roman history I know. What's the best source for learning about the major people and events of that era? EDIT: I guess what I'm really looking for is a hierarchy of topics, starting extremely broad (e.g. Roman Republic vs. Roman Empire) and drilling down into individual people and events. In other words, I want to do a breadth-first traversal, rather than depth-first.

If you're into videos, check out the YT channel Invicta: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwO-UgquohXwoe7f0e6lMnw

Re: Battle of Alesia

#22

Post by boudewijnrempt »

srge wrote: post #3

In France, this event is well known and taught in class (at least it was in the 80's). As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. As a result we were colonized and we lost almost all our Celtic culture (Celtic culture remains present notably in Bretagne…

No. You are not a descendent of "celts" who lived what is now "France". Your culture wasn't lost. Any Celtic culture that might have been present in France in pre-Roman times has nothing to do with you or your ancestry. It was not "your" culture.

The Celtic culture in Brittany is not something that survived from pre-Roman times, it's a later re-import from the British isles.

Stop making up silly, false, fake identities.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#26

Post by Someone »

nemo1618 wrote: post #11

Reading this made me realize how little Roman history I know. What's the best source for learning about the major people and events of that era? EDIT: I guess what I'm really looking for is a hierarchy of topics, starting extremely broad (e.g. Roman Republic vs. Roman Empire) and drilling down into individual people and events. In other words, I want to do a breadth-first traversal, rather than depth-first.

Not best (writer is biased, and mapping from place names to actual geography is ‘left as an exercise’), but “Commentarii de bello Gallico” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentarii_de_Bello_Gallico) is a first-hand account. You can also freely download it from Project Gutenberg, as even the English translation is out of copyright (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10657)

Re: Battle of Alesia

#27

Post by CydeWeys »

boudewijnrempt wrote: post #22
srge wrote: post #3

In France, this event is well known and taught in class (at least it was in the 80's). As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. As a result we were colonized and we lost almost all our Celtic culture (Celtic culture remains present notably in Bretagne…

No. You are not a descendent of "celts" who lived what is now "France". Your culture wasn't lost. Any Celtic culture that might have been present in France in pre-Roman times has nothing to do with you or your ancestry. It was not "your" culture. The Celtic culture in Brittany is not something that survived from pre-Roman times, it's a later re-import from the British isles. Stop making up silly, false, fake identiti…

That's not really how conquest works though. At least some of those original Celts reproduced with the Romans, and thus some genetic heritage continued.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#28

Post by alexhutcheson »

boudewijnrempt wrote: post #22
srge wrote: post #3

In France, this event is well known and taught in class (at least it was in the 80's). As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. As a result we were colonized and we lost almost all our Celtic culture (Celtic culture remains present notably in Bretagne…

No. You are not a descendent of "celts" who lived what is now "France". Your culture wasn't lost. Any Celtic culture that might have been present in France in pre-Roman times has nothing to do with you or your ancestry. It was not "your" culture. The Celtic culture in Brittany is not something that survived from pre-Roman times, it's a later re-import from the British isles. Stop making up silly, false, fake identiti…

> Stop making up silly, false, fake identities.

I think this is an unnecessarily negative framing. All national and regional identities are mostly socially constructed "imagined communities"[1].

For example, most Americans aren't descended from colonial settlers, but they still identify with the colonists when they read about or discuss the Revolutionary War.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagined_community

Re: Battle of Alesia

#29

Post by chimeracoder »

m_t wrote: post #12
Athas wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. Isn't modern France mostly a descendant of the Frankish kingdoms, where the Franks are quite different than the Gauls and in any case arrived in the area far later than the Battle of Alesia?

Of course, but a nation identity is built on more than just facts.

> Of course, but a nation identity is built on more than just facts.

In fact, a state's national identity is based on almost anything but facts.

Re: Battle of Alesia

#30

Post by agumonkey »

srge wrote: post #3

In France, this event is well known and taught in class (at least it was in the 80's). As I remember it now, this was taught as a bittersweet moment in our history. We united, we were brave and fought a stronger army but still we were defeated and our chief was captured and killed by the enemy. As a result we were colonized and we lost almost all our Celtic culture (Celtic culture remains present notably in Bretagne…

I'm a bit dubious about the state of gaul civilization. History books weren't super solid and recent archeology uncovered new commercial routes and production sites (wine jars). The Roman Empire was great, no question, but I'm not sure if other countries were so far behind.
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