For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity • Hacker News Board

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#491

Post by 6510 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:49 PM UTC

halbritt wrote: post #485

6510 wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/sustainability/sustainabil...

This is fascinating, but also somewhat orthogonal to the argument, assuming there was nothing I missed when skimming that paper. The paper itself describes farming practices that are more sustainable, and possibly more efficient after introducing a new formula to measure efficiency. I'm not sufficiently well-informed to critically assess the formula given, although on the surface it seems fine. To clarify my original…

For the most part I just thought it was interesting.

You asked in relation to what modern farming is among the worst culprits regarding carbon emissions. I suppose that merits a comparison to other know ways to grow food? Most of the crops "we" grow use to grow just fine on their own. We've cultivated them to be dependent. It doesn't seem unreasonable to think we can cut carbon emissions beyond 100% (eventually)

To add a funny: We wont optimize the Nodejs to the point it changes into ERLANG. It takes a whole new approach.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#492

Post by tangue » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #358

macinjosh wrote: post #98

My grandfather, rest his soul, was a 3rd generation rancher and farmer. He bought 2 John Deere tractors in the '80s and used them for 35 years. They are still being used to this day on the ranch. Growing up, I visited the ranch regularly. Farming and ranching is very hard on equipment so the tractors often needed repair. My father and grandfather could seemingly fix anything on the tractor without even needing to go…

> The world changes and sometimes it sucks but that is how progress is made. Progress for whom? Seems like a false dichotomy to me.

We should clarify the notion of progress. Technological advances are not necessarily progress. Progress imho is something that benefits the whole humanity without harming irremediably nature. But I have the impression that each one has its own definition.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#493

Post by dumbfoundded » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

haihaibye wrote: post #472

dumbfoundded wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think the trend is starting to reverse. At least in the area where I live in Ashland, OR where I have a 10-acre farm. What I'm seeing is products are becoming more and more niche. Kind of like how craft beers became a thing. I think it's easier than ever for a farm to create specialized products and sell them directly to consumers. Before this way of ecommerce tools, it was nearly impossible for a small fa…

50% of farms make no farm income. 40% rely on external income. https://www.ers.usda.gov/media/10292/farm-household-income-i...

A better question is how difficult is it to make a living farming? Instead of commercial vs residential farm %s.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#494

Post by dumbfoundded » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

armenarmen wrote: post #470

dumbfoundded wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think the trend is starting to reverse. At least in the area where I live in Ashland, OR where I have a 10-acre farm. What I'm seeing is products are becoming more and more niche. Kind of like how craft beers became a thing. I think it's easier than ever for a farm to create specialized products and sell them directly to consumers. Before this way of ecommerce tools, it was nearly impossible for a small fa…

Your soul source of income is from a 10 acre farm?

No. I made a hemp business called Plain Jane (https://tryplainjane.com). We started living on someone else's family hemp farm and selling their hemp. We then started sourcing from other family farms in the area and got our own manufacturing facility. We now source from 12+ family farms. For many of them, growing hemp is their sole income.

We started our own farm a few months ago to meet the increasing demand. In general, this is how I see it playing out in rural areas. Brands will be able to start in rural areas and then sell direct to consumer while sourcing locally. I know a winery and a smoked meats company that operate similarly in my county.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#495

Post by leosarev » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

upstandingdude wrote: post #442

simpss wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me introduce you to the lada 4x4(previously known as the lada niva all over the ex-soviet countries). https://www.lada.ru/en/cars/4x4/3dv/about.html it hasn't changed much, it's still serviceable with a hammer and a couple of pulleys and wrenches. Not sure if it's available in Belgium(it is in eastern europe) and it sure as hell isn't as comfy as a BMW or a MB, but it's cheap to buy and maintain.

lol it also has a reputation for being super unreliable

I don't understand why this comment unvoted :-) Basically "never breaks/reliable" and "easy to fix/repairable" is orthogonal things. Lada Niva (4x4) as basically all Ladaa is really easy to fix, but not reliable. If you are riding Lada you have to have toolbox and be ready to perform small repairs weekly, if not daily. But every repair is easy, spare parts are cheap and available (at least in Russia in time of Lada popularity). Modern car: basically visit dealer once per year, something rarely breaks, but if they do, car not fixable w/o expensive special tools

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#496

Post by knockout9461 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #465

jplayer01 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why the two should be at odds when it comes to how tractors should be designed. I feel like tractors that can be repaired on-site by your own employees is a far better deal than being 100% reliant on the manufacturer's good grace.

It IS a far better deal. Farmers should try only buying those, instead of throwing their money at a company that abuses them. The problem is that many farmers absolutely insist on buying only from John Deere, and then they complain about Deere's terrible policies and unrepairability. It reminds me of Apple customers who complain about their MacBooks not having normal USB ports or their iPhones being so locked-down. T…

Unfortunately, farmer's don't have this choice -- there are no real good actors in the industry. Competitors like Rostelmash, New Holland, and CLAAS have all used the rise of software-enabled ag equipment as a way to monopolize repair. The article describes how farmers are being driven to buy 40 year-old tractors not because they are Deeres. It's because they can't fix the machines themselves.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#497

Post by knockout9461 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:45 PM UTC

halbritt wrote: post #393

heavyset_go wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world changes and sometimes it sucks but that is how progress is made. Progress for whom? Seems like a false dichotomy to me.

I speculate that as corporations take over farming, their operations become more efficient providing greater yields per acre and for the amount of fuel consumed. If true, this is net positive for humanity as a whole as more people can get fed and there are less carbon emissions doing so. There is the problem that corporations tend to trend toward becoming sociopathic entities unless carefully managed, so it's not all…

I'm not sure whether or not corporate farming leads to less emissions, but the environmental impact should not be the only factor evaluated for whether or not corporate farming consolidation is good for humanity. What may be lost in efficiency is gained in good jobs for middle class people to make a living.

If we're talking large scale change for the environment, why not electrify farm equipment, expand our solar and wind capacity to meet the demand, and allow for small farmers to still carve out a solid living and make the Heartland a place with thriving communities?

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#498

Post by syshum » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #71

brenden2 wrote: post #16

The technology itself is not the issue, the problem is that companies are at war with their customers. These companies will go to any length to extract as much revenue as possible. Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. I hope in the future there are more companies that try to align incentives with their customers, such that their business practices help custome…

> Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. It clearly is good for business, even if it's bad for customers and society at large. Pretending it's bad for business just encourages complacency because it suggests that the natural discipline of the market will drive the milkers out of business and encourage good business practices. But that doesn't happen, and if we w…

>>if we want that to change there needs to be some source of external regulations to prevent it from happening.

External Regulations is what created the problem in the first place

it is a Perversion of Copyright, Patent and trademark laws that allow these companies to lock down their hardware in the first place

A return to proper, very limited, copyright is the solution, not more business regulations

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#499

Post by syshum » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 8:09 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #179

minikites wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Which products are getting more repairable with time? Nobody is bringing back easily repairable washing machines or easily repairable automobiles.

Parts and service cost as much as a new unit. This happened after free trade and if we produced locally the repair business would be a growing field.

Really? I completely replaced every sensor, and a primary component in one of my appliances for $40, and about 30mins of my own labor

Cost to replace the unit with a new machine, $500

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#500

Post by syshum » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 8:14 PM UTC

solatic wrote: post #389

chalupa-man wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment you started to see any real success with a company like this and become significant competition, John Deere would reverse their equipment-as-a-service DRM-based model, and you would be instantly crushed by their far more familiar and established brand with all the accumulated knowledge and trust people already have. It's so certain that you have essentially no chance of long-term success. John Deere can op…

Brand isn't everything, it doesn't "crush" competitors in markets without winner-takes-all characteristics (i.e. network effects). People buy smartphones that aren't iPhones; people buy burgers not made by McDonald's; people rent hotel rooms not offered by Hilton or Marriott. By the time the upstarts get competitive enough to force the incumbent to act, the upstarts already have branding and market power of their own…

I think you discounting the brand way to much.

Hotels, Food, etc are very much Brand focused, and absolutely people have their preferred brand of Hotel and Fast Food (and despise other brands)