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Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

latimes.com

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Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#361

Post by yibg »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #181
bob1029 wrote: post #5

I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…

Let's use Facebook as an example. The median employee salary is $240,000 [1], but Facebook makes an average of $1,620,000 in revenue per employee [2]. Why is it okay for a company to extract a so much more money from an employee than they pay them, but not okay for employees to band together to get paid what they're worth? [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-median-pay-240000-2... [2] https://www.businessins…

Why should there be a direct correlation between company profit and salary? If a company is losing money should employees pay the company?

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#362

Post by unapologetic »

inetknght wrote: post #249
unapologetic wrote: post #232

This is good. I probably won't bother engaging with people who disagree. Also going to say to the "i can organize a better deal myself" types. Google and other companies with a combined market cap of trillions spent years illegally conspiring to keep you wages lower. You can't compete with that. The current situation is an artifact of extreme demand. We already have worse protections than the average worker. When thi…

> We already have worse protections than the average worker. Is that why the average worker gets paid massively less than we tech workers do?

Pay is only part of the equation.

We work extra hours, we don't get extra money. We go oncall, we don't get extra money.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#363

Post by unapologetic »

friendlybus wrote: post #314
unapologetic wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The majority of bad sentiment has come in the past five years Literally the first 3rd party gaming company was because workers were unsatisfied with Atari.

The key engineers who left Ferrari in '61 became the key engineers that lifted Lamborghini into existence. They didn't start a union and stepped away from deaths of Ferrari drivers and verbal abuse to start something new with Lamborghini. Both companies survived and no unions were started. https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/207607/history-ferrari-an... Disgruntled employees are the birth of something new, not a call…

I was pointing out that the claim this sort of thing is new is complete and total bullshit.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#364

Post by unapologetic »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #333
unapologetic wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the same unemployment rate where the truth depends on how hard you look and who you support?

If there's something wrong with the statistics given in the source, point it out. If you've got statistics that you think are more accurate, give sources, and say why you think they're more accurate. But this drive-by snide comment is pretty worthless. You can be better than that.

It's an equally high effort response to posting unemployment rates in the first place.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#365

Post by Apocryphon »

inetknght wrote: post #290
topkai22 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those unions evolved in pretty different- Professional athletes are typically in a monopsony (single buyer) situation, whereas the Hollywood situation evolved during the studio system era that was much more cartelish than tech today. It's possible that workers joining unions will make life even better than today, but the previous high-paying occupation unions evolved in different circumstances that might matter.

> the Hollywood situation evolved during the studio system era that was much more cartelish than tech today. You don't think FAANG are cartelish?

Or EA, Activision, and Ubisoft.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#366

Post by VRay »

freehunter wrote: post #122
themagician wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people lie about their compensation though. The average tech worker salary isn’t $300k like HN wants to believe. The reality is that this board is mostly made up of the outliers. For every person getting $150k in stock options and “feels like that’s on the low end because everyone they know gets more” there are 10 others who get nothing.

The reality is this board heavily trends towards SV and other tech hubs where salaries are outrageous and everyone is flush with choices for employers. Not everyone working in tech can walk into their local coffee shop and walk out with a job. For the millions of tech workers who don't live in Seattle or Austin or the Bay Area, salaries are under $100k and your city only has a small handful of companies you can choos…

Click the "Who's Hiring?" threads on this site. There are tons of 100% remote jobs with great benefits that pay 150k a year or more

150k in the Midwest won't let you save as much per year (in a combination of savings and home equity) as 300k in Silicon Valley, but it's pretty close

That said, I'd be for a strong code monkeys union even though it'd probably screw me personally. The system we have is great for people who know their own worth and can advocate for themselves, but most people just aren't like that

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#367

Post by Apocryphon »

yibg wrote: post #361
jakelazaroff wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's use Facebook as an example. The median employee salary is $240,000 [1], but Facebook makes an average of $1,620,000 in revenue per employee [2]. Why is it okay for a company to extract a so much more money from an employee than they pay them, but not okay for employees to band together to get paid what they're worth? [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-median-pay-240000-2... [2] https://www.businessins…

Why should there be a direct correlation between company profit and salary? If a company is losing money should employees pay the company?

They already do as their equity comp loses value. And the management can, by taking smaller salaries.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#368

Post by yibg »

Unions can and have brought worker benefits, but I don’t want them in my (Software dev) job. Or at least I don’t want to have to be part of an union.

My experience is obviously a small sample size but both times I worked at a place with an Union the experience has been terrible. Seniority based promotions, the general lack of ownership and accountability and massive bureaucracy killed any motivation for me.

I enjoy my job, I think I’m fairly treated and am well compensated. And this has been true every non union job I’ve been at. I just don’t see the value of an union for me.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#369

Post by midnightclubbed »

friendlybus wrote: post #243
jgon wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The industry has had roughly 4 decades to make those self-regulating adjustments, how much longer should we wait?

Who is waiting? Most people I know that didn't like the conditions got better jobs in other industries. Finance pays well and is cushy in comparison. Architecture visualizations, media jobs, programming roles are easier to find after obtaining the ability to outperform the norms for other industries. For most of gaming's history it has been a niche product without mainstream appeal. Do you unionize every fledgling in…

> For most of gaming's history it has been a niche product without mainstream appeal

Really? So the Atari boom was niche? 500,000 arcade machines sold in 1982 was niche? 30 million Nintendo Entertainment systems in American homes was niche?

It hasn't been a fledgling industry by any reasonable measure for at least 25 years if not much longer.

How many artists, testers and game designers do you know that moved into finance, media jobs, or architectural visualization (very much a niche industry). At least 75% of people working in the video game industry doing skilled and professional work can't easily transfer to a different field in the same way as an electrician cant move in to plumbing.

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