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Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

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Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#91

Post by krn »

decebalus1 wrote: post #68
cmsonger wrote: post #66

I joined Google at the age of 50. Just send a resume. They are not trying to surprise you and want you to do your best. Consequently, not only do they tell you what to expect from the interview process, the recruiter will send you a PDF that talks through what to expect along with a reading list you can use to prepare. (For example: cracking the coding interview and CLRS are on it.) That said, I just went in cold. If…

You advice is sound but incomplete. > if you still understand your undergraduate level algorithms course and the corresponding vocabulary, then you know what you need to know speaking from experience, this would not get you nowhere near the level you have to be for passing the Google interview (or any other FAANG interview for that matter). You need to study long and hard in addition to solving OJ problems and famili…

> Let me give you and example of what I got at Google: [...] Solving this problem optimally with only what you remember from undergrad algo courses is impossible. You either need to have a knack for these types of challenges or solve enough of them to identify a solution pattern.

I have never tried to solve such problems before, but wouldn't it be enough to convert the string into a set of chars, then into an array of chars, sort it, and return it as a string?

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#92

Post by flurdy »

huangc10 wrote: post #43

I hate these questions because it honestly puts me off when I think about my future. It makes me scared of being old. 43 isn't even that old (isn't retiring age 65...?) and you seem to be confused what your profession is. I don't want to be in that position. If you're 43, you should know what you want to do. If you want to code, go for a senior/principal programming lead position. If you want to manage, go for a mana…

> If you're 43, you should know what you want to do.

LOL no. I'm 43. And I change my plan more now as I get older. Probably as I am less scared to change and no longer live paycheck-to-paycheck. The kids act like a small anchor to prevent me from going backpacking for a year but otherwise feel free to change my mind all the time.

Granted I have some friends/ex-colleagues at my age who knew what they would be doing until they retire. But they knew that when they joined some medium-to-big corp at 25-30 and never left.

But I also have more and more people my age (35-45) who change radically what they do as perhaps it is a midlife crisis or just realised they can afford to change now or need to before it is too late. I am not sure it ever is too late.

True, 25-years-old-me thought 35+ me would be a settled dad in a big corp and go fishing each weekend. And it turned out 36-years-old-me old left big corp to oscillate between startups and contracting and hacking each weekend instead.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#93

Post by nbm »

southphillyman wrote: post #51
yodsanklai wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was applying for a software engineering position. No particular level was specified. After the interviews, the recruiter basically told me that they couldn't make me an offer for a L4 position, considering my experience (I think he mentioned 7 years of experience). Interestingly, I had the exact same explanation at two different companies. A year later a different recruiter from the same company contacted me again…

Thanks, I hear a lot of stories of people being down leveled but it sounds like some companies have strict bands related to YOE. L4 appears to be mid level and I guess 7 yrs if on the upper limits of that but you'd think they'd give you the option of being down leveled or not to get your foot in the door.

L4 is an intermediary level between new-to-industry junior (new grads generally start at L3) and mid-level (L5). In many companies, it's expected that people will reach L5 within some time period.

Failing to have grown skills and project scope to L5 level after extensive time in the industry could be interpreted by some as poor motivation or career growth planning - their thinking is that if you've been doing the same thing for years elsewhere without growing, you'll tend to be trying to do the same things for years there without growing.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#94

Post by decebalus1 »

krn wrote: post #91
decebalus1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You advice is sound but incomplete. > if you still understand your undergraduate level algorithms course and the corresponding vocabulary, then you know what you need to know speaking from experience, this would not get you nowhere near the level you have to be for passing the Google interview (or any other FAANG interview for that matter). You need to study long and hard in addition to solving OJ problems and famili…

> Let me give you and example of what I got at Google: [...] Solving this problem optimally with only what you remember from undergrad algo courses is impossible. You either need to have a knack for these types of challenges or solve enough of them to identify a solution pattern. I have never tried to solve such problems before, but wouldn't it be enough to convert the string into a set of chars, then into an array o…

> wouldn't it be enough to convert the string into a set of chars, then into an array of chars, sort it, and return as a string?

No. Please re-read the problem statement. It's way more complicated than that. If you figure out how to do it, try to figure out how to do it in O(N).

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#95

Post by jefftk »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #86
jefftk wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I've interviewed 200+ engineers at Google and I think the problem you linked is not a good interview problem. I'm sorry you were asked it! A good problem gives people with algorithms ability a space to demonstrate that, but it should also give space for demonstrating strengths in design, coding, communication, etc. This one is almost all algorithms, of the "have you seen things like this before"…

Does Google interview training emphasize that? Even in companies that claim not to give leetcode questions, they do pop up; everyone isn't really on the same page and there seems to be a lot of luck involved.

I went through interview training 5+ years ago, but that was covered then and I believe it's still covered now. Because interviews are mostly conducted by engineers who do it as an occasional thing there are many inexperienced interviewers.

(Speaking only for myself)

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#96

Post by abacadaba »

twblalock wrote: post #72
southphillyman wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In both cases, the conclusion was that my results were good enough for an L4 position, but they wouldn't hire me for less than L5. (Why not, I'd be happy as an L4...). Can you elaborate on this? Were you interviewing specifically for L5 roles? I wonder if years of experience or even achievements can be used against a candidate by raising the bar so to speak. Maybe one is a L5 at their current company but only a L4 e…

> I wonder if years of experience or even achievements can be used against a candidate by raising the bar so to speak. It can be, and I've seen it. In general there is an assumption that people who come in at too low a level relative to their experience won't be happy and won't stay, so it's not a good idea to hire them. Obviously some people are exceptions, but hiring managers will err on the side of caution.

aka, blatant age discrimination

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#97

Post by krn »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #89
yodsanklai wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was applying for a software engineering position. No particular level was specified. After the interviews, the recruiter basically told me that they couldn't make me an offer for a L4 position, considering my experience (I think he mentioned 7 years of experience). Interestingly, I had the exact same explanation at two different companies. A year later a different recruiter from the same company contacted me again…

> After the interviews, the recruiter basically told me that they couldn't make me an offer for a L4 position, considering my experience (I think he mentioned 7 years of experience). Unless I'm missing some details, this actually sounds like age discrimination.

> Unless I'm missing some details, this actually sounds like age discrimination.

Wouldn't it be the same as not hiring a 30-year-old basketball player who is performing at the same level as a 25-year-old player?

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#98

Post by southphillyman »

nbm wrote: post #93
southphillyman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I hear a lot of stories of people being down leveled but it sounds like some companies have strict bands related to YOE. L4 appears to be mid level and I guess 7 yrs if on the upper limits of that but you'd think they'd give you the option of being down leveled or not to get your foot in the door.

L4 is an intermediary level between new-to-industry junior (new grads generally start at L3) and mid-level (L5). In many companies, it's expected that people will reach L5 within some time period. Failing to have grown skills and project scope to L5 level after extensive time in the industry could be interpreted by some as poor motivation or career growth planning - their thinking is that if you've been doing the sam…

Is there a guide for what type of projects FAANG expect for L5+? There was just a thread here about a guy slacking for multiple years, so are their L5s even working on complex projects themselves?

An individual might be trying to get into a FAANG in order to get experience with technically complex projects of a certain scope. A lot of roles out here at non tech or smaller firms are just building and maintaining simple CRUD interfaces. The business domain may be complicated but the tech execution is probably not. I thought the algo gauntlet was a equalizer where exceptional coders could clear the bar regardless of education or work history.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#99

Post by wonjohnchoi »

I am still in my 20's and recently switched team. Switching team made me think a lot about what I want to do in my life, and I still haven't been able to figure it out. I was feeling anxious and worried as I felt I am old enough that I should know what I want to do.

Reading some of comments in this thread made me realize that many people don't figure out what they want to do, even until 40's, so I feel better that I am not alone in this. I thank you all for sharing your perspectives with career. I will bookmark this page and read this whenever I feel lost with direction of my career.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#100

Post by yodsanklai »

nbm wrote: post #93
southphillyman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I hear a lot of stories of people being down leveled but it sounds like some companies have strict bands related to YOE. L4 appears to be mid level and I guess 7 yrs if on the upper limits of that but you'd think they'd give you the option of being down leveled or not to get your foot in the door.

L4 is an intermediary level between new-to-industry junior (new grads generally start at L3) and mid-level (L5). In many companies, it's expected that people will reach L5 within some time period. Failing to have grown skills and project scope to L5 level after extensive time in the industry could be interpreted by some as poor motivation or career growth planning - their thinking is that if you've been doing the sam…

> Failing to have grown skills and project scope to L5 level after extensive time in the industry

The projects I've worked on in my career haven't been considered in the interview process. They just expected better results on their standardized interviews (algo + system design) compared to a more junior candidate. I don't think the question they ask correlate at all with candidate experience, even for the system design part.

But overall, I think it's an imperfect but fair process.

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