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Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

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Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#81

Post by Blakestr »

matt-attack wrote: post #76
decebalus1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You advice is sound but incomplete. > if you still understand your undergraduate level algorithms course and the corresponding vocabulary, then you know what you need to know speaking from experience, this would not get you nowhere near the level you have to be for passing the Google interview (or any other FAANG interview for that matter). You need to study long and hard in addition to solving OJ problems and famili…

> You must make sure your result is the smallest in lexicographical order among all possible results. Can someone explain this? I can't even parse that sentence.

Basically alphabetical order, but if you don't say lexicographical, it doesn't sound as smart. (I am assuming it's a more comprehensive term, having to do with other characters, other than simple letters, so that if integers were used, it would appear as 1234, where saying "in alphabetical order"doesn't make sense. But yeah, I did a double take.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#82

Post by dfsegoat »

braythwayt wrote: post #21

Anybody in their 40s or older has valuable experience above and beyond ephemeral value of “Hitting the ground running with Cabbage and Sprouts containerized with Cuper9s using ES2020 and JSxyz.” One way to deliver that experience is in delivery management, that is, being responsible for teams that ship stuff. Another way to deliver that experience is in people management. Not all companies equate this with the previo…

> "A third way in in a more nebulous “leadership” role that doesn’t have “manager” in the title, e.g. “Architect,” or “Principal Engineer.”

As a technical lead (getting into my 40s soon) I try to think of myself as an chief enabler / support net: Let the team figure out implementation, support them as they go where they get out of their depth - and protect them from DIRECT trickle down BS/interruptions from management or clients.

This has worked pretty well for me thus far, but I've really got no idea if this is a solid approach or way of thinking.

I'm curious to know anyones thoughts?

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#83

Post by [deleted] »

matt-attack wrote: post #76
decebalus1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You advice is sound but incomplete. > if you still understand your undergraduate level algorithms course and the corresponding vocabulary, then you know what you need to know speaking from experience, this would not get you nowhere near the level you have to be for passing the Google interview (or any other FAANG interview for that matter). You need to study long and hard in addition to solving OJ problems and famili…

> You must make sure your result is the smallest in lexicographical order among all possible results. Can someone explain this? I can't even parse that sentence.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#84

Post by shric »

kayoone wrote: post #80
matt-attack wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You must make sure your result is the smallest in lexicographical order among all possible results. Can someone explain this? I can't even parse that sentence.

in other words, the shortest string in alphabetical order

Smallest as in order not length.

In the second example with input cbacdcbc a possible solution would be cbad but acdb is "smaller" (ordered before).

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#85

Post by jefftk »

decebalus1 wrote: post #68
cmsonger wrote: post #66

I joined Google at the age of 50. Just send a resume. They are not trying to surprise you and want you to do your best. Consequently, not only do they tell you what to expect from the interview process, the recruiter will send you a PDF that talks through what to expect along with a reading list you can use to prepare. (For example: cracking the coding interview and CLRS are on it.) That said, I just went in cold. If…

You advice is sound but incomplete. > if you still understand your undergraduate level algorithms course and the corresponding vocabulary, then you know what you need to know speaking from experience, this would not get you nowhere near the level you have to be for passing the Google interview (or any other FAANG interview for that matter). You need to study long and hard in addition to solving OJ problems and famili…

For what it's worth, I've interviewed 200+ engineers at Google and I think the problem you linked is not a good interview problem. I'm sorry you were asked it!

A good problem gives people with algorithms ability a space to demonstrate that, but it should also give space for demonstrating strengths in design, coding, communication, etc. This one is almost all algorithms, of the "have you seen things like this before" variety, plus a small amount of code.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#86

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jefftk wrote: post #85
decebalus1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You advice is sound but incomplete. > if you still understand your undergraduate level algorithms course and the corresponding vocabulary, then you know what you need to know speaking from experience, this would not get you nowhere near the level you have to be for passing the Google interview (or any other FAANG interview for that matter). You need to study long and hard in addition to solving OJ problems and famili…

For what it's worth, I've interviewed 200+ engineers at Google and I think the problem you linked is not a good interview problem. I'm sorry you were asked it! A good problem gives people with algorithms ability a space to demonstrate that, but it should also give space for demonstrating strengths in design, coding, communication, etc. This one is almost all algorithms, of the "have you seen things like this before"…

Does Google interview training emphasize that? Even in companies that claim not to give leetcode questions, they do pop up; everyone isn't really on the same page and there seems to be a lot of luck involved.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#87

Post by nbm »

syndacks wrote: post #78
sulam wrote: post #25

I would not recommend trying to interview as a manager for any large tech company without having first been a manager in another role. I would also not recommend doing this for small startups, but some may be willing to hire you into such a role without you being able to point to concrete experience in the role (the filters aren't as strong). I say this because that is personally a cardinal rule of mine, and I've nev…

What's the bar for being hired as a FAANG engineering manager? Prev FAANG management experience? Prev FAANG IC role? Cursory LinkedIn searches show many FAANG engineering managers were promoted from within or came from a similar position at a similar company. FWIW I've been both an IC before and have steadily moved to CTO at my current startup. I come from a non traditional background (non CS) but had several leaders…

Being hired in as an engineering manager requires having been an engineering manager previously (at any company), generally for a reasonable period (let's say, minimum two years of full-time management experience minimum with at least 3 direct reports), with a career YOE of around at least five years. You're generally coming in at the same pay band as a senior IC (you might be able to see this sort of information in levels.fyi), so you'll be in the same ballpark of experience/career trajectory.

If you don't have enough engineering manager experience, you can generally join as an IC (with a full IC interview loop) with a view to converting to manager. You may have additional discussions or even interviews around management as well, especially if converting to manager is something you identify as a career goal (as opposed to an option).

Converting to manager from an IC is generally pretty easy if you've shown good aptitude for leadership - the larger companies generally find it a lot easier to hire ICs than good managers externally, so internal conversions are necessary to keep up with demand for quality management attention on teams.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#88

Post by nbm »

syndacks wrote: post #77
powowow wrote: post #35

I'm a Sr Manager at a FAANG company (and I started here in my 40s). My direct reports include other SDMs, senior product managers, and staff/principal engineers. You mention "trying" for management. If you haven't previously managed people, then you probably won't be able to get a good SDM role directly. Instead, your best path would be to be hired as an SDE, demonstrate strong managerial bones (mentorship, communica…

What's the bar for being hired as a FAANG engineering manager? Prev FAANG management experience? Prev FAANG IC role? Cursory LinkedIn searches show many FAANG engineering managers were promoted from within or came from a similar position at a similar company. FWIW I've been both an IC before and have steadily moved to CTO at my current startup. I come from a non traditional background (non CS) but had several leaders…

Answered at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21985518

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#89

Post by seanmcdirmid »

yodsanklai wrote: post #34
southphillyman wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In both cases, the conclusion was that my results were good enough for an L4 position, but they wouldn't hire me for less than L5. (Why not, I'd be happy as an L4...). Can you elaborate on this? Were you interviewing specifically for L5 roles? I wonder if years of experience or even achievements can be used against a candidate by raising the bar so to speak. Maybe one is a L5 at their current company but only a L4 e…

I was applying for a software engineering position. No particular level was specified. After the interviews, the recruiter basically told me that they couldn't make me an offer for a L4 position, considering my experience (I think he mentioned 7 years of experience). Interestingly, I had the exact same explanation at two different companies. A year later a different recruiter from the same company contacted me again…

> After the interviews, the recruiter basically told me that they couldn't make me an offer for a L4 position, considering my experience (I think he mentioned 7 years of experience).

Unless I'm missing some details, this actually sounds like age discrimination.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#90

Post by lubesGordi »

sokoloff wrote: post #58
southphillyman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I hear a lot of stories of people being down leveled but it sounds like some companies have strict bands related to YOE. L4 appears to be mid level and I guess 7 yrs if on the upper limits of that but you'd think they'd give you the option of being down leveled or not to get your foot in the door.

Farther up the page is a comment that rings true to me: companies who have a surplus of applicants are prone to rationally bias their hiring practice to avoid making poor hires even at the risk of rejecting strong candidates. Just because someone with many years of experience levels lower than typical doesn’t make them a bad person or even a bad hire. But it does make them a more risky candidate to hire (more likely…

Well, I'd argue it still isn't rational given that the testing done during the interview is usually not telling much about the candidates engineering prowess.
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