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Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

blog.arduino.cc

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Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#141

Post by mrguyorama »

msla wrote: post #86
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BASIC was a common industrial automation language at one time. If the platform has the resources, use them.

You've just reminded me of the BASIC Stamp, which lead me to find this interesting website comparing that to the Arduino head-to-head. The BASIC Stamp was weirdly expensive for what it was, but that's probably my post-Arduino post-Raspberry Pi bias: https://todbot.com/blog/2006/09/25/arduino-the-basic-stamp-k... > Getting to the “Hello World” of microcontroller projects, the blinking LED, on Arduino costs $32 compare…

As a kid who once got a BASIC Stamp microcontroller and project kit, one super important thing to understand was that it came before Arduino brought the prices way down. It was reasonable for what it was at the time, ie a tool used for teachers that also happened to be sold to the public. I don't know how popular it was in industry

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#142

Post by mrguyorama »

sgillen wrote: post #127
rtkwe wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah you pay for the hobby convenience of flashing over USB on the regular board which is a nice convenience when you're just noodling around with a project not intended to become a product. (Or doing rough PoC prototypes where iteration speed is important).

Definitely, looks like others are taking note. All of TIs newish launchpads seem to have a built in usb debugger/programmer. Pretty sure that was a direct response to the popularity of Arduino.

Eh, TI has been doing the in circuit programming route on their BASIC Stamp boards since before USB was popular. I don't think they had anything special for debugging though

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#143

Post by pjmlp »

evv wrote: post #18
vb6sp6 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

javascript and python support seem like huge improvements

On one hand I think it's ridiculous to mention these languages for industrial applications. But I've also just spent the past year programming an automated mobile restaurant. We use a traditional PLC for everything safety or time-sensitive, but everything else is JavaScript. We're planning to use even more JS on the next-gen system. Details are in my profile if you want to help, or if you want to convince me otherwis…

Most modern embedded devices are way more powerful than 60's mainframes where Lisp used to run, or Xerox PARC workstations, so I see it more as culture issue than anything else.

Heck, the ESP32 runs circles around the Amstrad that I used to play Defender of the Crown on.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#144

Post by winsome »

gmiller123456 wrote: post #135
joemi wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But $5 is the real price of the Zero. Perhaps you’re thinking of the Zero W, which is $10? Or do you mean the $5 doesn’t include the power? If that’s what you mean, it should be noted that power doesn’t come with Arduinos either, and they both can be powered via USB. And to what unethical inventory games are you referring? That seems like a pretty serious accusation you’re making.

When you actually try to buy one from the very few distributors permitted to sell them, you'll either end up paying $5-$7 in shipping, when it could be shipped for closer to $1 USPS. And you're only allowed to buy one. Or, if you walk in to a MicroCenter, the only distributor with a physical location you can walk in to and buy one, they're either out of stock, or again you're limited to just one, but you can buy more…

I ran into this problem the other week. I was trying to buy 5 pi zeros for a few projects I have in mind and a couple of backups to have lying around. Couldn't do it. Very frustrating.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#145

Post by peterwwillis »

mhh__ wrote: post #139
evv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand I think it's ridiculous to mention these languages for industrial applications. But I've also just spent the past year programming an automated mobile restaurant. We use a traditional PLC for everything safety or time-sensitive, but everything else is JavaScript. We're planning to use even more JS on the next-gen system. Details are in my profile if you want to help, or if you want to convince me otherwis…

Why JavaScript? Unless it's a training constraint, I just don't see anything about the language that directs people to write good code. It just seems insane to me to use a language with such bizarre semantics.

Investing in a better class of developers is not only more expensive, it's more difficult to find them, whereas javascript developers are a dime a dozen.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#146

Post by brainzap »

Zagitta wrote: post #137

In my opinion Arduino and "pro" does not belong in the same sentence. I work as an embedded software engineer who's tasked with ripping all the terrible arduino code out of a fairly large codebase where I work and the arduino core libraries are the lowest quality code I've ever had the displeasure of working with. It's full of awful decisions everywhere in the arduino core libraries such as defining min and max macro…

How does one write code for arduino?

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#147

Post by windexh8er »

Zagitta wrote: post #137

In my opinion Arduino and "pro" does not belong in the same sentence. I work as an embedded software engineer who's tasked with ripping all the terrible arduino code out of a fairly large codebase where I work and the arduino core libraries are the lowest quality code I've ever had the displeasure of working with. It's full of awful decisions everywhere in the arduino core libraries such as defining min and max macro…

Can you shed any light on platforms that are the opposite of your experience with Arduino?

I've enjoyed doing a few small projects with PyCom [0] products and have found them good enough for what I was after, however I can stake no claim on it being any better and have always been curious.

[0] https://pycom.io/

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#148

Post by PeanutNore »

sgillen wrote: post #84
wrycoder wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price seems very high for the category.

Arduino's have always been a little pricy for the hardware you get. I think a lot of what you pay for (at least for a regular, non pro, Arduino) is the ease of use and the eco system. That being said, do you have any examples of other entries in this category that are suitable for industrial / automotive use?

There's little reason to commit a whole Arduino board to a project when you can easily flash the Arduino bootloader onto an ATMega and embed one in your gadget. I think I own exactly two Arduinos: an UNO SMD edition that I use for flashing bootloaders on ATMegas and programming ATTinys, and a regular UNO that I stuck a ZIF socket on that I use to program ATMegas.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#149

Post by sigmaprimus »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #41
sigmaprimus wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be wrong but I believe the problem with using these languages in industrial applications has to do with the back end running them as these os's are subject to system calls or interrupts that mess with critical timing situations. I believe this is the reason 3D printers and other CNC machines still use a seperate dedicated controller such as original arduino rather than just using the GPIO on a newer arm board…

There's Industrial, and then there's Industrial. Factory automation applications written in BASIC have been a thing for decades. Javascript & Python are improvements in many ways. Like everything else in engineering, you have to know what you're doing, what you and your tools are capable of, and what performance is needed. Not everything has a 1ms deadline and the vast majority of so-called "industrial" applications…

True enough, there are many applications that do not require critical timing.

As far as engineering goes I would expect most engineers would feel more comfortable putting their seal on something that was over-engineered than just good enough. This is similar to why when designing a circuit it is common practice to double the power dissapation or wattage of components.

I see no reason Java or Python languages wouldn't work or any other language for that matter, as long as they were running on a stable system, I'm just not convinced that arm processors offer that stability but again I may be wrong.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#150

Post by spookthesunset »

mdszy wrote: post #125
mbanzi wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

atrocious ??, maybe on an 8 bit 8mhz device you can go faster if you write optimised assembly code but this is a 240Mhz+480Mhz device it's a different world....

Using more powerful hardware as an excuse to make shitty software is incredibly flawed.

What a bunch of gatekeeping fuddy-duddy nonsense. Give me a break...

If newer hardware makes it cheaper and easier to make cool shit while maintaining the price point and power budgets of previous generations, who gives a shit?

This new stuff makes tinkering with hardware way more accessible than before and that is a good thing for everybody.

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