Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Peak map: Visualize the elevation of any area using a ridgeline chart

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 69 posts

Re: Peak map: Visualize the elevation of any area using a ridgeline chart

#51

Post by crazygringo »

DonHopkins wrote: post #47
crazygringo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. "Joy" isn't a bad word. Joysticks seem to be fine. It's specifically that the band "Joy Division" was named intentionally after a regrettable piece of history, and "joy plots" are named because of a Joy Division album cover. Words aren't bad -- it's the meaning and derivation behind them. Etymology matters.

Do you think the Mac OS System 7.1 user interface designers at Apple should have called that grinning penis-like thing with a rash on the tip the "Control Strip"? It's just such a bad name, on so many levels. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21870821 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_Strip >The Control Strip is a user interface component introduced in the "classic" System 7 Macintosh operating system. It curr…

Show evidence that the Mac OS control strip was named after German war fortifications.

Instead of it clearly just being a literal strip of controls.

Clearly you're not going to find any.

This is my point. Etymology and history matters.

Also, gratuitous genital analogies don't help to make anyone's case here.

Re: Peak map: Visualize the elevation of any area using a ridgeline chart

#52

Post by crazygringo »

homonculus1 wrote: post #48
crazygringo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong a million times over. The term "joy plot" was coined in 2017, just three years ago. It's not some ancient term. This isn't about "cancelling". It's about something being in bad taste in the first place, even if the originator hadn't been aware of it. It's kind of like how we don't use the racist term for Brazil nuts anymore. [1] Follow the link for the phrase, I'm not going to write it here. Surely you d…

You're drawing a moral equivalence between an album cover reference and a racial slur. That's insane. I reject your entire angle. "Joyplot" harms literally nobody. There are no victims of joyplots. There aren't even victims of Joy Division. It's a reference to an image associated with a band which was grimly ironically named in reference to a historical atrocity. The connection is so tenuous that you can't get your f…

I'm saying that once you know what the "joy" in "joy plot" refers to, you can't unsee that. And that every time you see the term "joy plot" you're going to be aware of that.

No, that isn't "literal" harm in the sense of violence. But it's unpleasant. And it's not just my personal taste, but clearly that of others or it would never have been brought up.

So that's the empathy to show: for people who think using a historical reference that shows humanity at a shameful low point is inappropriate for modern technical terminology. For modern people in general, not specific holocaust victims or their descendents.

That it's not an "edgy joke", it's just inappropriate. So let's try to be decent understanding people and call it something better, shall we?

Re: Peak map: Visualize the elevation of any area using a ridgeline chart

#53

Post by OGWhales »

saltcured wrote: post #50
OGWhales wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what do you mean by the standard map? The one before you press "draw the height map"? Or is there another one I'm missing. If it is that map then the point is that it looks way better with the height map as you can actually visualize the height of mountain range relative to others. This isn't really discernible with the original map.

What I'd like to see is comparison and motivation relative to contour line maps, which are what I would consider the conventional way to show topography. I find these plots somewhat bizarre in comparison. Are these joy plots more accessible to novice viewers somehow? To me, contour lines provide a very clear understanding of terrain but I admit I am pretty fluent in reading them. They bunch up to show steep slopes an…

I think that this is more useful at showing height on a massive scale. Contour lines seem more generally useful, I agree, but looking at say the Appalachian mountain range on this zoomed out is much more appealing and intuitive than looking at the same scale using contour lines or another method of showing off height. I can also quickly compare the height of those mountain ranges to the Rockies.

Also it's just cool. I'll talk to my friend who does this type of thing professionally and ask his opinion. He is on vacation though. I was trained to read contour lines in boy scouts and I hike a lot since I live in the mountains, so I am quite comfortable with them too. I think this one is just a cool way to represent the data. I think the only time it is better is showing of height and height on a massive scale that are simply too big for other types of maps to be easily understood at a glimpse.

I'll challenge you to find a good map showing off the height of the Appalachian region, as I can't find one and really want to after seeing this. The one those tool can provide is quite cool in comparison to every one I can find. My friend would probably be a good person to ask in that regard.

Re: Peak map: Visualize the elevation of any area using a ridgeline chart

#56

Post by OGWhales »

mthoms wrote: post #22
anvaka wrote: post #17

Hey there, I'm the author of the tool! Just wanted to chime in and say thank you for the sharing and love! Have a wonderful start of the year!

Great work. Did you coin "Joy Map" or is that already a thing? I'm assuming its a reference to Joy Division's iconic Unknown Pleasures cover [0] by Peter Saville? [0] https://www.radiox.co.uk/artists/joy-division/cover-joy-divi...

>the image is a reinterpretation of the image of radio waves from the first discovered pulsar. The original was illustrated by Cornell grad student Harold Craft in his 1970 PhD thesis and subsequently published in the Cambridge Encyclopeadia of Astronomy. [0]

[0] https://www.esri.com/arcgis-blog/products/arcgis-pro/mapping...

Pretty cool that the album was inspired by the visual representation of the first discovered pulsar!

Apologizes if your link already says that. I cannot open it due to work filters I think :/

Re: Peak map: Visualize the elevation of any area using a ridgeline chart

#57

Post by homonculus1 »

crazygringo wrote: post #52
homonculus1 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're drawing a moral equivalence between an album cover reference and a racial slur. That's insane. I reject your entire angle. "Joyplot" harms literally nobody. There are no victims of joyplots. There aren't even victims of Joy Division. It's a reference to an image associated with a band which was grimly ironically named in reference to a historical atrocity. The connection is so tenuous that you can't get your f…

I'm saying that once you know what the "joy" in "joy plot" refers to, you can't unsee that. And that every time you see the term "joy plot" you're going to be aware of that. No, that isn't "literal" harm in the sense of violence. But it's unpleasant. And it's not just my personal taste, but clearly that of others or it would never have been brought up. So that's the empathy to show: for people who think using a histo…

I hate being told what words I have to use. No it's not literal harm. But it's unpleasant. And it's not just my personal taste, but clearly the that of others.

So that's the empathy to show: for people who hate being directed how to think and express themselves by complete strangers. For free society in general.

See how it goes both ways? Empathy is only a mode of thinking. You are demanding compliance. You're not even empathizing yourself, since you can't see past your own notion of how you want people to interact. "Inappropriate", "modern", "decent", "understanding" are all just passive-aggressive weasel words for your subjective norms. True understanding doesn't insist on others to perfect themselves to your comfort.

Re: Peak map: Visualize the elevation of any area using a ridgeline chart

#58

Post by crazygringo »

homonculus1 wrote: post #57
crazygringo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that once you know what the "joy" in "joy plot" refers to, you can't unsee that. And that every time you see the term "joy plot" you're going to be aware of that. No, that isn't "literal" harm in the sense of violence. But it's unpleasant. And it's not just my personal taste, but clearly that of others or it would never have been brought up. So that's the empathy to show: for people who think using a histo…

I hate being told what words I have to use. No it's not literal harm. But it's unpleasant. And it's not just my personal taste, but clearly the that of others. So that's the empathy to show: for people who hate being directed how to think and express themselves by complete strangers. For free society in general . See how it goes both ways? Empathy is only a mode of thinking. You are demanding compliance . You're not…

> I hate being told what words I have to use.

I get that. That's the root of your discomfort here.

But the thing is, in society, we all have to work together. Getting along is important. Of course you're free to use the words you want. But then the rest of us are free to choose not to work with you and criticize your insensitivity.

I'm arguing that people ought to get along with each other. That involves having empathy for each other. Having human sensitivity.

You're arguing you should be able to do whatever you want, and if other people are bothered that it's their problem. You can call that many things, but you can't call it empathy. It's mainly called being selfish, not trying to get along.

Re: Peak map: Visualize the elevation of any area using a ridgeline chart

#59

Post by DonHopkins »

crazygringo wrote: post #51
DonHopkins wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the Mac OS System 7.1 user interface designers at Apple should have called that grinning penis-like thing with a rash on the tip the "Control Strip"? It's just such a bad name, on so many levels. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21870821 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_Strip >The Control Strip is a user interface component introduced in the "classic" System 7 Macintosh operating system. It curr…

Show evidence that the Mac OS control strip was named after German war fortifications. Instead of it clearly just being a literal strip of controls . Clearly you're not going to find any. This is my point. Etymology and history matters. Also, gratuitous genital analogies don't help to make anyone's case here.

Show your evidence that "Joy Plots" were named after the Freudenabteilung. Yet you support the R community changing the name.

Clearly you're not going to find any evidence that the R community named the plots after the Freudenabteilung.

Instead of it clearly just being an innocent literal reference to the name of the band who produced a famous album cover that inspired the plots.

If your point is that etymology and history matter, then why are you saying that it matters for the R community, but not Apple?

By your inconsistent logic, it's not OK to criticize Apple for naming the Control Strip even through they may not have realized the historical meaning of Kontrollstreifen at the time, but it's OK to criticize the R community for naming Joy Plots after the name of a band instead of Freudenabteilung. Why the Widerspruch und Doppelmoral?

Your own words contradict your point: 'This isn't about "cancelling". It's about something being in bad taste in the first place, even if the originator hadn't been aware of it.' Yet now you're saying that because Apple was not aware of the dark meaning of "Control Strip", it's wrong to criticize that name. Pick a lane, and stick with it.

My point is that IBM declined to name the input device that Ted Selker invented the "Joy Button", even though that's what he originally wanted to call it (if not the "Keyboard Clitoris" or "Control Knob"), so they named it the "Trackpoint" instead. And that was most likely to avoid any sexual connotations, not about Nazi allusions.

Yet IBM has an unabashed well documented history of marketing and selling computing machinery to Nazi Germany that facilitated the Holocaust, which substantially enabled them to identify, round up, and murder many Jews and other persecuted minorities (not to mention their contracts with the US Government to help round up Japanese people into internment camps). So by IBM management's logic, Nazi are fine upstanding customers, but sexual references in product names are a no-no.

Please be a Joy Button, not a Control Knob!

Re: Peak map: Visualize the elevation of any area using a ridgeline chart

#60

Post by DonHopkins »

vanderZwan wrote: post #30
joe_blank wrote: post #6

https://anvaka.github.io/peak-map/#11.19/52.2305/8.9095 This is one of my favorite spots on the map. The mountainrange is dividing a big part of the north from southern region called Westphalia. Only one river breaks through it allowing for an easy way across the mountains. The citys name at that spot is Porta Westfalica which is Latin and means "gate to Westphalia". I think this visualization illustrates the reason…

Go slightly west from there and you'll see why the Dutch have a reputation for reclaiming land from the sea.

Now why would you mention that, Meneer van der Zwan? ;)
Post reply on HN