Thats a very bold claim, that goes against Ray Kurzweil's hypothesis tech is accelerating. Maybe (unlikely) that cloud/mobiles is the end game for silicon. But what about quantum? What about biological? What about Nano? What about AI? Literally there are a ton of potential generational changes in the making that could turn everything on its head again
Why is Ray Kurzweil's hypothesis particularly important to contrast other hypotheses against? What sets it apart in relevance and/or authority?
The End of the Beginning
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Re: The End of the Beginning
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is Ray Kurzweil's hypothesis particularly important to contrast other hypotheses against? What sets it apart in relevance and/or authority?
It's very well known and makes a compelling argument that tech progress has been accelerating since the Stone age.
Likewise, if someone said "human aging and death are unavoidable" this wouldn't be bold just because Kurzweil has written a lot about immortality.
Re: The End of the Beginning
#13Basically, starting around 15 years ago, there's the proliferation of bootcamps teaching fullstack development, because software startups were the new hot thing, and they desperately need generalist engineers that were capable of spinning up web app quickly. Rails was the hot thing those days because of this as well. Hence we saw many new grads or even people who change careers to fullstack development and bootcamps churning out these workers at an incredible pace (regardless of quality) but the job market took it because the job market was desperate for fullstack engineers.
During that time, the best career move you can do was to join the startups movement as fullstack engineers and get some equity as compensation. These equities, if you are lucky, can really be life changing.
Fast forward now, the low hanging CRUD apps (i.e., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc) search space has been exhausted, and even new unicorns (i.e., Uber) don't make that much money, if they do for that matter. Now those companies have become big, they are the winners in this winner take all filed that is the cloud tech software. Now these companies these days have no use for fullstack engineers anymore, but more specialists that do few things albeit on a deeper level.
Today, even the startup equity math has changed a lot. Even with a good equity package, a lot of the search space has been exhausted. So being fullstack engineers these days that join startups don't pay as much anymore. Instead, a better move would be to try to get into one of these companies because their pay just dwarfed any startups or even medium / big size companies.
Just my 2c as someone who is very green (5 yrs) doing software engineering. Happy to hear criticism.
Re: The End of the Beginning
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is Ray Kurzweil's hypothesis particularly important to contrast other hypotheses against? What sets it apart in relevance and/or authority?
It's very well known and makes a compelling argument that tech progress has been accelerating since the Stone age.
Re: The End of the Beginning
#15Now, looking back, it makes sense that the next logical step after PCs was the Internet. But from each era looking forward, it's not as easy to see the next "horizon".
So, if each next "horizon" is hard to see, and the paradigm it subsequently unlocks is also difficult to discern, why should we assume that there is no other horizon for us?
I also don't know if I agree that we are at a "logical endpoint of all of these changes". Is computing truly continuous?
However, I think Ben's main point here is about incumbents, and I agree that it seems it is getting harder and harder to disrupt the Big Four. But I don't know if disruption for those 4 is as important as he thinks: Netflix carved out a $150B business that none of the four cared about by leveraging continuous computing to disrupt cable & content companies. I sure wasn't able to call that back in 2002 when I was getting discs in the mail. I think there are still plenty of industries ripe for that disruption.
Re: The End of the Beginning
#16But this doesn't fit any of the upcoming trends. The biggest current trend is edge computing where cloud-based services introduce issues around latency, reliability and privacy. These are big money problems - see smart speakers and self-driving cars. The cloud players are aware of this trend - see AWS Outposts that brings the cloud to the needed location and AWS Wavelength where they partnered with Verizon to bring compute closer to people.
But privacy in a world full of data-driven technology is still very much an unsolved problem. And most of the major technology players have public trust issues of one sort or another that present openings for competitors in a world where trust is increasingly important.
Re: The End of the Beginning
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you read more of Ben's writing, he talks extensively about how software companies dominate market share through network effects and vertical integration. You don't hear him talk about economies of scale because marginal costs are negligible for software companies. Besides, network effects and vertical integration are sufficiently powerful to control the market. > In addition, new tools and new processes for softwa…
However, the network effect in tech can be leapfrogged due to the zero marginal cost (as shown in this post). I.e. what network effect do you get from doing ML inference in the cloud? The case for big tech today is still the economy of scale and not network effects (maybe facebook have those, but it exists only if the interface to facebook does not change). The big tech players have economy of scale, due to their abi…
> The case for big tech today is still the economy of scale and not network effects (maybe facebook have those, but it exists only if the interface to facebook does not change).
This is only true if you believe that the greatest cost of developing software is running hardware. The greatest cost of developing software is developing software. Not only are economies of scale in compute management negligible except at massive scale, the cost of compute has declined dramatically as the companies you've described have made their datacenters available for rent through the cloud. Yet the tech giants persist.
Facebook, Google, Netflix, Amazon all have considerable network effects that you're not considering. For each of these companies, having so many customers provides benefits that accrue without diminishing returns, giving them a firm hold on market share. See https://stratechery.com/2015/aggregation-theory/
Ben is saying that the only way to topple the giants is by working around them and leveraging new computing technologies better than them. He makes the (admittedly speculative) case that this is no longer possible because we can't bring compute any closer to the user than the mobile devices.
> However, with Kubernetes operators, there is a way to move those capabilities into any Kubernetes cluser.
Kubernetes, at the scale of technologies we're discussing, is a minor optimization. Introducing k8s costs more than it helps far until far into a company's infra maturity. Even if most companies deployed k8s in a manner that significantly reduced costs, it's not enough to overcome the massive advantages existing tech companies have accrued. Not to mention all of the big tech companies have internal cluster managers of their own.
Re: The End of the Beginning
#18This is wrong on merit, and I am not sure why it is presented this way. The difference between a car company and a software company is economy of scale. I.e. economy of scale dominate the physical world but does not exist in the software world since I can replicate software at zero cost. In addition, new tools and new processes for software has increased the productivity times fold, which means that you need fewer de…
Inferencing is done at the edge, but training must be done centrally.
Re: The End of the Beginning
#19This is wrong on merit, and I am not sure why it is presented this way. The difference between a car company and a software company is economy of scale. I.e. economy of scale dominate the physical world but does not exist in the software world since I can replicate software at zero cost. In addition, new tools and new processes for software has increased the productivity times fold, which means that you need fewer de…
Network effects are THE factor in software because the marginal cost tends towards zero with each incremental user in the network. The edge adds cost per node.
Up until the point that users are paid to connect to the network and/or the network is directly linked to the user with the I/O line completely obviated, the economics of hardware and management underlying the network will tend towards economies of scale... which is the point Ben is trying to make.
Re: The End of the Beginning
#20Thats a very bold claim, that goes against Ray Kurzweil's hypothesis tech is accelerating. Maybe (unlikely) that cloud/mobiles is the end game for silicon. But what about quantum? What about biological? What about Nano? What about AI? Literally there are a ton of potential generational changes in the making that could turn everything on its head again
Why is Ray Kurzweil's hypothesis particularly important to contrast other hypotheses against? What sets it apart in relevance and/or authority?
Of course, there are debates around which inventions count as significant. And there is recency bias.
Never underestimate the power in something easy to communicate.