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Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

bluetooth.com

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Re: Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

#41

Post by Naac »

TylerE wrote: post #38
lightedman wrote: post #4

This literally addresses none of my complaints regarding Bluetooth Audio. Latency needs to be on the order of single-digit milliseconds. LC3 can achieve around 20. One order of magnitude too high. Audio needs to not sound like it's being played underwater. And give me 100 feet of range.

20ms for playback of media is totally fine. (Hint: If you're standing on the opposite side of the room from a TV, you're already at about 15ms of latency...sound moves at approx. 1ft per ms) Many TVs are already delaying the audio by a frame or two anyway due to all the processing they do. It's a very very different set of requirements than real time recording/instrument playback.

That seems like too much.

According to this chart[0], I would say worst case scenario people are sitting 10 feet away from their television. Not to mention 15ms would imply you're 15 feet away, which I don't think is the average room size for most people.

I would average worst case scenario would be 10 feet, so 10ms, and average best case would be 3 ms if you're sitting in front of your computer with speakers.

[0] https://www.crutchfield.com/S-DxEcQ1ASZo9/learn/learningcent...

Re: Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

#42

Post by TylerE »

Naac wrote: post #41
TylerE wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20ms for playback of media is totally fine. (Hint: If you're standing on the opposite side of the room from a TV, you're already at about 15ms of latency...sound moves at approx. 1ft per ms) Many TVs are already delaying the audio by a frame or two anyway due to all the processing they do. It's a very very different set of requirements than real time recording/instrument playback.

That seems like too much. According to this chart[0], I would say worst case scenario people are sitting 10 feet away from their television. Not to mention 15ms would imply you're 15 feet away, which I don't think is the average room size for most people. I would average worst case scenario would be 10 feet, so 10ms, and average best case would be 3 ms if you're sitting in front of your computer with speakers. [0] ht…

Imagine being at the bar or gym, which is the sort of use case being thrown out in this thread. 15ft is low, if anything.

Re: Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

#43

Post by TylerE »

monocasa wrote: post #16
ulfw wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Audio needs to not sound like it's being played underwater." What kind of bluetooth have you been using? Modern codecs sound perfectly fine.

Modern codecs are non standard vendor extensions.

A2DP standard supports both MP3 or AAC.

Re: Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

#45

Post by klodolph »

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #27
klodolph wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mass transit (trains, buses, subway stations, airport) could broadcast announcements, the same way they do now over speakers, so those who have a hard time hearing the announcements (or just have headphones in anyways) could actually hear them. These are often transmitted over audio induction loop already.

Ah, fair point. As I'm not hard of hearing I don't think about those technologies much. However as an "regular person", I would like to be able to hear the audio announcements on the local train system (BART). The trains tends to be extremely loud so in-ear/ANC headphones are almost required for ear protection. ANC + Movie/Music = No idea what is going on or why.

Maybe it would be possible to receive inductive loop on your headphones.

Re: Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

#46

Post by Someone1234 »

snarf21 wrote: post #15
ShakataGaNai wrote: post #8

The "Broadcast" mode is really an interesting concept - depending on the available range. There are a lot of potential uses for this technology beyond the basic. Of course "I can share my headphones with you" is great, in the day in age of watching moves on iPads in say a plane. However I think in a business setting the broadcasts could be used for all sorts of cool bits. Remember the TV's in airports running news on…

Agreed, plus everyone at the bar can listen to whichever game they want without annoying everyone else. That is killer.

So you go to a bar, don't talk to people, and listen to a specific game solo. Why not just stay at home? The other examples named above make sense, this one seems like a stretch.

The whole purpose of going to the bar is to be around other people, the whole point of watching sports at a bar is to enjoy it together.

Re: Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

#47

Post by gumby »

rwem wrote: post #23
ShakataGaNai wrote: post #8

The "Broadcast" mode is really an interesting concept - depending on the available range. There are a lot of potential uses for this technology beyond the basic. Of course "I can share my headphones with you" is great, in the day in age of watching moves on iPads in say a plane. However I think in a business setting the broadcasts could be used for all sorts of cool bits. Remember the TV's in airports running news on…

The killer application for this technology is a bicycle bell you can use to break the trance of phone-staring pedestrians who are randomly staggering down the pavement.

Once you can do that the killer app will be intrusive ads.

And those people who drive down the street blasting loud music (err, I mean "sharing their stereos")? They'll be able to share directly to the people on the sidewalk!

(I loved your comment -- I think we both know this won't be supported).

Re: Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

#48

Post by PaulHoule »

PaulHoule wrote: post #35
rwem wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer application for this technology is a bicycle bell you can use to break the trance of phone-staring pedestrians who are randomly staggering down the pavement.

See https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2013/08/legal-to-ride...

What's with the downvoting?

It's astonishing how bicycle riders seem to think everybody except for them is responsible for their safety.

Riding on the sidewalk is outright dangerous, I have seen multiple accidents when:

* pedestrians got hurt by bicyclists travelling at high speed riding on the sidewalk

* bicyclists go around corners and hit pedestrians

* bicyclists get hit by cars who couldn't see them at the intersection because they were riding on the sidewalk

Re: Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

#49

Post by gumby »

rwem wrote: post #31
lxe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is how it will work. Broadcasting won't immediately interrupt others' connections.

Guess I'll just stick with the air horn.

Spray can works better -- and as a bonus the person doesn't return to gazing at the screen.

Re: Announcing Bluetooth LE Audio

#50

Post by Kirby64 »

xnyan wrote: post #30
DaniFong wrote: post #2

really interested in latency here

It's not mentioned, seeing as this was a press release if it was better than the current standard then one would assume they would have mentioned it. Assuming this is the case, 200-500ms in real world conditions. With super duper non-standard proprietary tech on both ends from vendors like Qualcomm it can be in theory be as as low as 32ms, but in practice I don't see those numbers. New airpods with apple's proprietar…

Yeah, according to some news articles, I see Airpods Pro have a latency of ~144ms end-to-end. I haven't noticed that latency when I watch videos on my phone... On the other hand, I definitely noticed the latency with a much cheaper pair of true wireless earbuds. They probably had the ~500ms latency you mention.

I wonder how much the real-world latency is. If the codec itself is only adding 20ms, what about the rest of the system?

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