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Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

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Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#51

Post by southphillyman »

yodsanklai wrote: post #34
southphillyman wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In both cases, the conclusion was that my results were good enough for an L4 position, but they wouldn't hire me for less than L5. (Why not, I'd be happy as an L4...). Can you elaborate on this? Were you interviewing specifically for L5 roles? I wonder if years of experience or even achievements can be used against a candidate by raising the bar so to speak. Maybe one is a L5 at their current company but only a L4 e…

I was applying for a software engineering position. No particular level was specified. After the interviews, the recruiter basically told me that they couldn't make me an offer for a L4 position, considering my experience (I think he mentioned 7 years of experience). Interestingly, I had the exact same explanation at two different companies. A year later a different recruiter from the same company contacted me again…

Thanks, I hear a lot of stories of people being down leveled but it sounds like some companies have strict bands related to YOE. L4 appears to be mid level and I guess 7 yrs if on the upper limits of that but you'd think they'd give you the option of being down leveled or not to get your foot in the door.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#52

Post by daxfohl »

tra3 wrote: post #48
huangc10 wrote: post #43

I hate these questions because it honestly puts me off when I think about my future. It makes me scared of being old. 43 isn't even that old (isn't retiring age 65...?) and you seem to be confused what your profession is. I don't want to be in that position. If you're 43, you should know what you want to do. If you want to code, go for a senior/principal programming lead position. If you want to manage, go for a mana…

As you get older you'll realize that "adults" don't know any better than you do. Consider that moving forward. Nobody has all the right answers, and even fewer people know what the right answer is for you. I'm reminded of this quote by Baz Luhrmann: > The most interesting people I know didn’t know at 22 what they wanted to do with their lives, some of the most interesting 40 year olds I know still don’t. Incidentally…

PG has one too (I think; a quick search can't find it) but there is a perspective change:

"At age 20 if you're not doing bad you fell good. At age 50 if you're not doing well you feel bad."

I find that to be true, causes you to question a lot of what you've done in your past, and what you're doing in your future with the limited time you have left.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#54

Post by theflyinghorse »

huangc10 wrote: post #43

I hate these questions because it honestly puts me off when I think about my future. It makes me scared of being old. 43 isn't even that old (isn't retiring age 65...?) and you seem to be confused what your profession is. I don't want to be in that position. If you're 43, you should know what you want to do. If you want to code, go for a senior/principal programming lead position. If you want to manage, go for a mana…

> I hope I don't sound like a jerk, but this is really what I feel

You are saying that OP's question makes you afraid. This has nothing to do with OP but everything to do with you. Go chart your own waters.

I just clocked in 30 and post like OP's make me rethink the position I've held up until now which is I have until I am 40 in tech. I love what I do and if there is a way for me to do for more than 10 years then Great!

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#55

Post by killjoywashere »

tra3 wrote: post #48
huangc10 wrote: post #43

I hate these questions because it honestly puts me off when I think about my future. It makes me scared of being old. 43 isn't even that old (isn't retiring age 65...?) and you seem to be confused what your profession is. I don't want to be in that position. If you're 43, you should know what you want to do. If you want to code, go for a senior/principal programming lead position. If you want to manage, go for a mana…

As you get older you'll realize that "adults" don't know any better than you do. Consider that moving forward. Nobody has all the right answers, and even fewer people know what the right answer is for you. I'm reminded of this quote by Baz Luhrmann: > The most interesting people I know didn’t know at 22 what they wanted to do with their lives, some of the most interesting 40 year olds I know still don’t. Incidentally…

My dad will be 75 in a little over a week. I told him I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up (I'm 43). He said he still didn't know.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#56

Post by lostdog »

sulam wrote: post #25

I would not recommend trying to interview as a manager for any large tech company without having first been a manager in another role. I would also not recommend doing this for small startups, but some may be willing to hire you into such a role without you being able to point to concrete experience in the role (the filters aren't as strong). I say this because that is personally a cardinal rule of mine, and I've nev…

> I would not recommend trying to interview as a manager...without having first been a manager in another role.

This is my experience too. Companies don't like hiring managers without at least a little experience, and often are resistant to hiring first level managers at all. Instead, they look for "senior IC, but manager material" candidates, and extend an IC offer with a loose expectation of becoming a manager in a year or so. It's not an explicit role you can apply for, but you can target it by applying for an IC role and keeping any leadership and team-focused experience visible on your resume and during your interviews.

As I get older, this is the bucket I tend to get put in during interviews, and then after joining I decide if I want to be a manager this time around.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#57

Post by nameseemslegit »

I joined a FAANG company when I was about 40 years old around just a couple of years ago coming from a sequence of startups and smaller companies. I think the biggest adjustment to make is the performance review systems. At these big companies performance is not about doing right things, but about fitting in with insular expectations. The senior folks who you would hope could mentor you may have no idea that you don't "get it" or what kind of feedback it requires to make the transition. In contrast, a lot of feedback you get at smaller companies is to just focus on doing right things for the business and not worry about any defined expectations.

I have seen some people make the transition smoothly... others not so much.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#58

Post by sokoloff »

southphillyman wrote: post #51
yodsanklai wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was applying for a software engineering position. No particular level was specified. After the interviews, the recruiter basically told me that they couldn't make me an offer for a L4 position, considering my experience (I think he mentioned 7 years of experience). Interestingly, I had the exact same explanation at two different companies. A year later a different recruiter from the same company contacted me again…

Thanks, I hear a lot of stories of people being down leveled but it sounds like some companies have strict bands related to YOE. L4 appears to be mid level and I guess 7 yrs if on the upper limits of that but you'd think they'd give you the option of being down leveled or not to get your foot in the door.

Farther up the page is a comment that rings true to me: companies who have a surplus of applicants are prone to rationally bias their hiring practice to avoid making poor hires even at the risk of rejecting strong candidates.

Just because someone with many years of experience levels lower than typical doesn’t make them a bad person or even a bad hire. But it does make them a more risky candidate to hire (more likely to be "middle of the pack"; less likely to be "undiscovered superstar"), and so some companies choose to pass.

(I’m arguing that this is rational, not that it’s right, fair, or morally sound.)

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#59

Post by StevePerkins »

southphillyman wrote: post #51
yodsanklai wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was applying for a software engineering position. No particular level was specified. After the interviews, the recruiter basically told me that they couldn't make me an offer for a L4 position, considering my experience (I think he mentioned 7 years of experience). Interestingly, I had the exact same explanation at two different companies. A year later a different recruiter from the same company contacted me again…

Thanks, I hear a lot of stories of people being down leveled but it sounds like some companies have strict bands related to YOE. L4 appears to be mid level and I guess 7 yrs if on the upper limits of that but you'd think they'd give you the option of being down leveled or not to get your foot in the door.

> "it sounds like some companies have strict bands related to YOE"

I don't see how this could be legal, even in an employer-friendly a nation as the U.S.

Sure, there are some outlier candidates who enter the field later in life as a second career. But for the overwhelming majority of candidates, "years of experience" is a very thin proxy for "age". I can understand requiring a minimum YOE, but there's no reasonable justification for a maximum.

Re: Ask HN: Joining Big Tech in One’s 40s

#60

Post by unoti »

I was 47 when I joined Microsoft and am currently a principal engineer working as an individual contributor doing engineering work. Before that I was running my own startup for several years. There are jobs available in everything imaginable including product management, engineering, management, and blends of those three.

The age thing wasn’t a problem for me interviewing for an engineering position. However, I had some difficult engineering interviews with senior and principal engineers. You should prepare hard to interview very well. The hardest part is convincing young senior engineers that you’re as good of a develop as they are or better.

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