Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020 • Hacker News Board

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#101

Post by Darkphibre » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

mdszy wrote: post #92

dragontamer wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the same hardware not be used for both industrial, and beginner-friendly settings? Some of the biggest successes are because beginner-friendly kits were delivered to universities. Linux and Unix are a great example of this: students taught in Linux / Unix environments (even using "toy" languages like Python) end up growing into professionals who... still use Linux. One of the most important business moves for a "…

>Can the same hardware not be used for both industrial, and beginner-friendly settings? Sorry but, if you have to ask this question, it's pretty clear that you have no idea what many industrial settings require. There are ruggedness requirements, stability requirements, longevity requirements... I work in an industry where our products are used for LITERAL decades. There's no way that anything even remotely marketed…

Maaaybe there's different industrial settings other than your own? It's OK if this chip doesn't fit your needs. If it fits no one's needs, it'll fail.

But I suspect there are enough niches it fills it will be successful.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#102

Post by CamperBob2 » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

jiofih wrote: post #48

katmannthree wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with that, but writing code for industrial applications is fundamentally different from whipping up a backend for the hottest new Lyft for Parrots startup. If industrial equipment malfunctions, people can be killed or horribly maimed. Industrial equipment needs to do exactly what it was designed to do 24/7 for years or decades in horrible (EMI, temperature, etc) environments.

Pretty sure that class of equipment will not be using any kind of Arduino board (see also: certifications above).

HN commenters love to talk about how Raspberry Pi and Arduino boards aren't suitable for use in production hardware.

I recently had a chance to wander around one of the bigger EMS factories in the Bay Area, rubbernecking at everybody else's products in various stages of assembly. It's safe to say not many naysaying HN'ers have done that recently, or they would be saying something very different.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#103

Post by crtlaltdel » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

evv wrote: post #18

vb6sp6 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

javascript and python support seem like huge improvements

On one hand I think it's ridiculous to mention these languages for industrial applications. But I've also just spent the past year programming an automated mobile restaurant. We use a traditional PLC for everything safety or time-sensitive, but everything else is JavaScript. We're planning to use even more JS on the next-gen system. Details are in my profile if you want to help, or if you want to convince me otherwis…

I've used embedded linux systems for industrial control systems many times. In those applications, as you mention, we integrated with a PLC for life-safety systems or another control system via contact closures. We ran python for most of our on-board system level software and some networking related services. No way in hell would I have used our output relays to do things like close a flood gate.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#104

Post by mbanzi » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

mochomocha wrote: post #70

mochomocha wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... In theory, if you could debug your code. The debugging capabilities on Arduino boards are unfortunately basically inexistent compared to traditional MCU dev boards. Hardware is great I agree though.

Which in my opinion makes the "goes pro" statement misleading. Without proper JTAG/SWD debugging functionalities, how do you program anything serious on Arduino?

we released the beta Pro IDE with JTAG debugging capabilities. we have a powerful cli written in go which lets you compile /upload your code very simplt with whatever IDE you like the most. This board is certified for industrial temperature and other industrial certification are being done now.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#105

Post by mbanzi » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:16 PM UTC

evv wrote: post #18

vb6sp6 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

javascript and python support seem like huge improvements

On one hand I think it's ridiculous to mention these languages for industrial applications. But I've also just spent the past year programming an automated mobile restaurant. We use a traditional PLC for everything safety or time-sensitive, but everything else is JavaScript. We're planning to use even more JS on the next-gen system. Details are in my profile if you want to help, or if you want to convince me otherwis…

it's a dual core board. you run c++ /mbedos on the CM4 for your mission critical software then you can use the m7 for high level languages / tensorflow. you can even RPC between cores

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#106

Post by pseudosudoer » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:17 PM UTC

mochomocha wrote: post #68

cushychicken wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those SMT32H7s are some beefy cores. Colocal M7 and M4. Lots of fun, compact deep learning work going on for those chips. Same with NXP's RT1000 series.

... In theory, if you could debug your code. The debugging capabilities on Arduino boards are unfortunately basically inexistent compared to traditional MCU dev boards. Hardware is great I agree though.

STMCubeIDE integrates pin routing, debugging, and writing of code all into one nicely packaged solution. If the goal is to write and debug Arduino code, the Arduino API could be integrated into your Cube project while also reaping the benefits of Cube.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#107

Post by mdszy » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:18 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #94

mdszy wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can the same hardware not be used for both industrial, and beginner-friendly settings? Sorry but, if you have to ask this question, it's pretty clear that you have no idea what many industrial settings require. There are ruggedness requirements, stability requirements, longevity requirements... I work in an industry where our products are used for LITERAL decades. There's no way that anything even remotely marketed…

> I work in an industry where our products are used for LITERAL decades. There's no way that anything even remotely marketed as "beginner friendly" could begin to work for anything we do. Beginner friendly doesn't mean that the other requirements disappear. The Arduino can run Javascript. Sure, you don't have to make it use Javascript, but it can be done. Just because Arduino runs Javascript doesn't change its -40C t…

>Beginner friendly doesn't mean that the other requirements disappear.

Beginner friendly includes price. If you have the other requirements, it's going to cost much more. Doesn't matter if it's beginner friendly if a development board costs $5k.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#108

Post by jjrh » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

starik36 wrote: post #4

Not trying to troll - just don't know. Why would anybody use an Arduino versus a five dollar Raspberry Pi Zero?

More detailed comments below, but in short: - lower power consumption (that you can control) - different environmental tolerances - peripherals with hardware support

Looks like this has a integrated Li-Po charger which should mean you can have a UPS like battery backup.

Folks may use this as a development platform that eventually gets a custom PCB made for the end product. ( it's open hardware so it has all the schematics https://content.arduino.cc/assets/Arduino-PortentaH7-schemat... )

It's really just different features for different needs.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#109

Post by tverbeure » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #42

starik36 wrote: post #4

Not trying to troll - just don't know. Why would anybody use an Arduino versus a five dollar Raspberry Pi Zero?

The question is akin to "why would anyone buy an S-class Benz versus a Hyundai Elantra?" They exist at different positions on the price/performance scale. It's as simple as that.

That doesn't seem like a valid analogy unless an S-class Benz is 10x cheaper than the Elantra?

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#110

Post by dragontamer » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 7:22 PM UTC

mdszy wrote: post #107

dragontamer wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I work in an industry where our products are used for LITERAL decades. There's no way that anything even remotely marketed as "beginner friendly" could begin to work for anything we do. Beginner friendly doesn't mean that the other requirements disappear. The Arduino can run Javascript. Sure, you don't have to make it use Javascript, but it can be done. Just because Arduino runs Javascript doesn't change its -40C t…

>Beginner friendly doesn't mean that the other requirements disappear. Beginner friendly includes price. If you have the other requirements, it's going to cost much more. Doesn't matter if it's beginner friendly if a development board costs $5k.

The development board literally costs $100 and the STM32H747XI costs $17 from Digikey. Yes, that's with -40°C ~ 85°C operating temperature and a pretty wide operating voltage of 1.62V ~ 3.6V.

The actual device here looks quite rugged, comes with a variety of useful specs. The Arduino Pro IS the beginner friendly development board, the beginner-friendly introduction to STM32.

A "real" product would strip off all the unnecessary parts and only use the $17 STM32H7 chip alone.