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America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

foodandwine.com

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Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#201

I’m constantly amazed at how cheap milk is in the grocery store. A gallon of Great Value 1% milk is $2.77 now. That seems low for what you are getting (a gallon of protein rich fluid milked from a cow and transported to you). How much profit could be left? I’ve heard that grocery stores sell milk for less than they buy it for just to get you into the store, because they know you will buy other things. I haven’t check…

I've been buying Horizon whole milk for awhile because the cheap milk gallons taste watered down. The price difference is large (~$5 vs ~$2.50), but the milk tastes way better.

> Horizon said the added protein comes from “organic milk protein concentrate made from high-quality complete proteins naturally found in milk”.

They are adding extra concentrate to the milk. That's why it is 12 grams of protein per cup instead of 8 grams as it comes from a cow's udder or 2.5 as it comes from a human breast.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#202
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drink unflavored, unsweetened soy milk. Just two ingredients, soy beans and water. It tastes great when made properly, and is very nutritious, high protein and good fats, calcium etc

what brand/product is this, or is it homemade?

Edensoy!

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The insurance company is effectively acting as a giant escrow account on behalf of the employees/retirees. The employer pays into the account at whatever rate is required to fully fund retirements. The insurance company manages those funds. If the employer goes bankrupt, the funds are not accessible by raiders/PE firms.

This already exists. It's called a 401(k).

Defined benefit means that the employer buys a perpetuity from the insurer on behalf of the pensioner. The insurer requires the employer to pay the cost of the benefit divided by the average rate of return after operating and profit margins.

If the insurer can earn 6%, and takes 1% of that, then if an employer wants to offer an employee a $50k/year pension, they need to pay in $1M before the employee's retirement to fully fund it. Over an expected 40-year career, if that employee was basically making $50k/year in take-home pay the whole time, adjusted for inflation, the pension cost would add $25k/year.

Actually, the cost to fund it would be a bit less, as the pension usually ends when the pensioner and their spouse die, so not a true perpetuity. The insurer calculates the expected time from retirement to death, and discounts the up-front cost by the current value of all those payments that won't be made after the beneficiaries die. This works out better the more pensioners can be averaged out in a big pool, which is why big insurers have an advantage in offering these sorts of financial products.

But no matter how you slice it, defined-benefit plans, if fully funded by incremental contributions with each paycheck, add significantly to labor costs, especially when the insurers can't get good investment returns. The lower the return, the more the plan costs. And the higher the return, the more the insurer tends to take for itself.

The 401(k) reduces the pension cost to the employer by capping it at a lower percentage of employee take-home pay, and furthermore dumping all the market risk onto them.

Completely different. Defined benefit has always been better for the laborer, insofar as the company can keep its promises. Defined contribution is better in cases where the employer is untrustworthy or the employee can invest wisely such that they can get the same returns as the insurer, but without taking a cut off the top--as one might get with no-fee, broad-market index funds.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been buying Horizon whole milk for awhile because the cheap milk gallons taste watered down. The price difference is large (~$5 vs ~$2.50), but the milk tastes way better.

> Horizon said the added protein comes from “organic milk protein concentrate made from high-quality complete proteins naturally found in milk”. They are adding extra concentrate to the milk. That's why it is 12 grams of protein per cup instead of 8 grams as it comes from a cow's udder or 2.5 as it comes from a human breast.

You could probably achieve the same effect by adding powdered milk to liquid milk.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oliver's background is in entertainment and comedy. As far as I know, he's never had a traditional journalism job. Carlson started his career as a journalist, working for right-wing publications.

Yes, but being a professional journalist doesn't presently correlate with journalism skills or integrity. His work is closer to good journalism than most TV news programs or "news hours". Funny world we live in.

I don't disagree with that. There's something broken in journalism today, for sure. No way should an admitted comedian/entertainer provide better news than many "real" news outlets.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#206

I always thought it was weird to be drinking the breast milk of another species.

Indeed. Far more reasonable to lick platypus mammary "sweat".

If you think too hard about any kind of food, it can start to get weird.

Like coffee. You're taking the fruit of some tropical plant, ripping off the berry-flesh part that it wants mammals to eat, taking the seed that it wants those mammals to poop out somewhere else, killing it with heat to produce different flavor molecules, crushing it to powder, then passing hot water or steam through the powder to leach out those flavor molecules, including the molecules that the plant uses as a defense against improper eating. On top of that, adding things like the fat skimmed off the mammary secretions of other species, highly processed molecules from a temperate grass modified to produce gigantic seeds full of starch, and crystals from the juice of pulverized stems of tropical grass. This is poured into a vessel formed from huge trees pulverized down to loose cellulose fibers and molecules created using organic reactions from crude petroleum, or maybe just those organic polymers, puffed up with air.

It could be all that insane-sounding stuff, or it could just be a cup of coffee.

It is sort of cool that humans can't digest grass, but they grow grass anyway, so they can feed it to animals that can digest grass and then turn it into proteins and nutrients that humans can harvest from the animal without killing it, and which is tastier and more nutritious than raw grass juice.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#207
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money is supposed to be invested in part by the employee and the employer at the time of payroll. This money is then moved to a fund, impossible to be touched by the company forever and ever. The fund invests the money, it grows, and then you can get an income in retirement after many years. The same could be done by the employee itself by just saving part of his paycheck and investing in a mutual fund, but most…

So, what happened at Nortel?

Unfortunately I don't know enough about it to offer an opinion on this specific case. I only know it will pay only part of the promised benefits. But from other pension plans I've seen, this happens because the plan is undercapitalized. This usually happens because of:

a) missing employer contribution to the fund on every paycheck b) mismanagement of the fund

The second point can be very varied and only limited by imagination, from embezzlement to government action. I've seen laws passed in the past passed about being able to take a loan on certain public pension funds without interest, which shows the complete lack of understanding about how these pensions are supposed to work and the actuarial math behind it.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#208
The concept of perverse incentives pops up regularly on HN, and the dairy industry is a great example. You get paid by the gallon, but Bessy produces a limited number of gallons. So what do you do, you breed Bessy to the point that her milk is little more than white water, unrecognizable to previous generations of milk drinkers, and in doing so your supply outpaces demand.

The point is, the struggles of the dairy industry are entirely their own making. They ignored the potential for diversification, with loads of family farms going out of business because they wouldn't move beyond fluid milk -- same concepts of value-add and vertical integration exist in dairy just like in other businesses. Before Chobani, good luck finding "greek" yogurt. After Chobani, good luck finding anything not "greek" yogurt. But where's the Quark? Where's the Creme Fraiche? Where's the "real" greek yogurt made with sheep milk? Dairies thought they could keep producing sub-standard Holstein water and didn't need to actually think like competitive businesses.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#209
post #28
post #3

A counterpoint: these companies were recently bought by private equity firm KKR Co, the same company that loaded up Toys 'R Us with debt and then liquidated it. https://mobile.twitter.com/rhinosoros/status/121424602712711... This bankruptcy filling might just be negotiation in the courts to reduce pension obligations.

I don't understand how bigger waves haven't yet been made about these locusts. Where's the New York Times expose? Proposals by Congress on how to make this vampirism illegal? Literally anything?

It's hard for the NYTimes to run stories on the evils of private equity when their employees and owners are completely intertwined with the people who work in that industry.

I can't overstate the degree to which all the different industries in New York socially overlap. The degree of separation between someone who works in technology, media, finance, publishing and advertising is 0 or 1. Those relationships become marriages, friendships, acquaintances, people sitting next to you at charity dinner.

Perhaps most critically the Times is a family owned business, the owners are billionaires, the current owner is also it's publisher. They have no interest in poking around the fundamental mechanics of how rich people operate in this country.

Shiny stories of fraud or insider trading or whistleblowing? Absolutely. But questioning the core mechanics of capital, especially capital centered in New York operates would never happen.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#210
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how bigger waves haven't yet been made about these locusts. Where's the New York Times expose? Proposals by Congress on how to make this vampirism illegal? Literally anything?

Have you or any of your friends ever worked in a non-tech, non-finance business? Many of them are incredibly poorly run. Bad hiring practices, little/no investment in operations or process, etc. All I'm saying is, you have to look case by case at what's going on. Sometimes the PE firm does basically loot the business. In others, entrenched management has been there decades with little board or investor oversight, is…

Tech and finance businesses are also horribly run. There's no evidence suggesting managerial or process excellence in technology companies. The reason finance and technology companies are profitable has everything to do with the nature of the product they create and the leverage it has in our society today.

Finance is famous for making people sitting at their desks all day waiting to get a deck at 11AM to put in logos with the correct resolution.

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