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Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

latimes.com

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Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#31

Post by maxk42 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #22
bob1029 wrote: post #5

I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…

> it's not like you don't have options There's a catch-22 there, though - the more times you exercise your option (to move to a different job), the harder it is to exercise it the next time. Too many job changes is considered a negative.

In other industries, perhaps, but it's standard in tech work to move jobs frequently. Every time I hire a new dev I slog through 200 - 300 resumes, the overwhelming majority of which have never held a job longer than 18 months.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#32

Post by [deleted] »

bob1029 wrote: post #5

I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…

[deleted]

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#33

Post by Tiktaalik »

Aperocky wrote: post #3

Can’t say for video game industry. But software engineers are both in hot demand and well compensated, as such, I personally and the people I know are mostly content and not likely to join an union.

Compensation is only one axis here. There's many of other things unions can do to improve the life of video game workers independent of seeking higher wages. Eg. compensation time, influence over production schedules, transparency, credits...

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#34

Post by aabeshou »

adnzzzzZ wrote: post #25
eropple wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Carmack got to where he is by owning a game development company . That does not imply he didn't work at it and it doesn't imply that he didn't work hard but the difference between capital and labor is obvious and that is precisely what a union seeks to address. (He's also a genius. And good for him for that. Most people aren't.)

He talks about this in the video. In his own experience in his studios he never noticed someone being unfairly pressured to work more than they wanted, and he had colleagues who worked 9 to 5 and who did just fine. He also claims that from people in the industry he spoke to, most people under these situations choose to work overtime because they value their work a lot, and that he doesn't buy into social engineering…

well, if he's right then people might just reject the union. if his experience is biased and/or anecdotal, we'll find out the truth. either way, no point in trying to undermine or discredit grassroots unionization efforts.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#36

Post by lettergram »

balls187 wrote: post #28

Have you considered what your career will be like at age 48? 55? 62? It's true that software developers are well compensated and in high demand, that demand tapers off rapidly after 40, when ageism comes up. If you want to go into management, then it's climb the corporate ladder, and get promoted until you can't do your job. What if you want to stay an IC? Become the lone developer who can support a legacy react appl…

I won’t comment on anything but the ageism. Most of the developers I work with are in there late 20s and early 30s. We’ve hired people in their 40s, 50s and 60s to join our team.

According to those I’ve spoken with there really isn’t a challenge to find work - regardless of age. The caveat being everyone I spoke with was current on the latest languages, research, etc.

If you stay current with the times you can find a job in most white collar fields without a problem. Basically your resume should reflect your time to obtain experience.

Final note - people typically hire others similar to them. As engineers age they are more likely willing to hire older engineers. I basically view this as a solution today because we have such a plethora of engineers being hired.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#38

Post by eropple »

adnzzzzZ wrote: post #25
eropple wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Carmack got to where he is by owning a game development company . That does not imply he didn't work at it and it doesn't imply that he didn't work hard but the difference between capital and labor is obvious and that is precisely what a union seeks to address. (He's also a genius. And good for him for that. Most people aren't.)

He talks about this in the video. In his own experience in his studios he never noticed someone being unfairly pressured to work more than they wanted, and he had colleagues who worked 9 to 5 and who did just fine. He also claims that from people in the industry he spoke to, most people under these situations choose to work overtime because they value their work a lot, and that he doesn't buy into social engineering…

"Never noticed" is doing a lot of work for you there. Making line employees work more to achieve goals that cannot otherwise be reached except by pushing those employees to crunch is what managers are for. Why would an executive or a founder "notice" this? The work's getting done, what else do they care about?

It's possible that iD was well-run when he was there. (And, from what I've anecdotally heard, that's probably true--Todd Hollenshead gets a lot of respect from folks I know!) That doesn't mean other studios are run so well and it doesn't mean that Carmack's anecdotes cancel out, or even meaningfully put into question, those of people not in his rarefied circles. There are a lot of game developers out there and most don't have nearly the funding or the schedule luxuries that iD always did pre-Bethesda, when Carmack was most involved.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#39

Post by lawnchair_larry »

balls187 wrote: post #28

Have you considered what your career will be like at age 48? 55? 62? It's true that software developers are well compensated and in high demand, that demand tapers off rapidly after 40, when ageism comes up. If you want to go into management, then it's climb the corporate ladder, and get promoted until you can't do your job. What if you want to stay an IC? Become the lone developer who can support a legacy react appl…

This seems like an argument against unions. I certainly don’t want to live in a world where somebody is guaranteed a wage or a job due to age or seniority. This just seems really entitled.

It’s up to you to create value, regardless of age.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#40

Post by eplanit »

adamsea wrote: post #21
Aaronstotle wrote: post #9

I can't really see tech workers joining a union, game industry makes more sense as it's notoriously terrible and there's nothing but horror stories about the working conditions.

People in the game industry are tech workers.

Yes, but they are really part of the Entertainment industry, more specifically. Unionization is very much part of that industry, so maybe game developers should recognize that and try to join/expand those unions.
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