I can't really see tech workers joining a union, game industry makes more sense as it's notoriously terrible and there's nothing but horror stories about the working conditions.
People in the game industry are tech workers.
Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
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Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#22I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…
> it's not like you don't have options
There's a catch-22 there, though - the more times you exercise your option (to move to a different job), the harder it is to exercise it the next time. Too many job changes is considered a negative.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#23As much as I don't like the idea of unionizing tech workers in general, game development does seem like it's suffering from the kind of industry-wide coordination failure unions are built to address. Every source I've ever seen is unhappy with months-long crunch time - are there any serious arguments that it's a good development model?
Many well known game developers disagree with this notion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIvHkaV6Ri8 that this is a huge problem. All the sources you see seem unhappy because those stories get the most attention, but it doesn't mean that those things are occurring often or everywhere.
Thanks for filling me in. My question wasn’t rhetorical, and if Carmack is right that some games literally couldn’t be made without crunch time, that does seem like a good argument that it’s not a failure even if some people find it intolerable.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#24Video games need it badly, i thought technology people secured wages and benefits via negotiation and Talent?
When there's tens of thousands new college graduates applying for 10 positions (and willing to work for $20,000 a year because OMGVIDEOGAMES), any single individual's negotiation power is pretty close to zero, even should they have capital-T Talent.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
John Carmack got to where he is by being a game developer. If you discount all wildly successful people in a field that is known to be a winner takes all environment then you won't have that many successful people to listen to.
John Carmack got to where he is by owning a game development company . That does not imply he didn't work at it and it doesn't imply that he didn't work hard but the difference between capital and labor is obvious and that is precisely what a union seeks to address. (He's also a genius. And good for him for that. Most people aren't.)
He talks about this in the video. In his own experience in his studios he never noticed someone being unfairly pressured to work more than they wanted, and he had colleagues who worked 9 to 5 and who did just fine. He also claims that from people in the industry he spoke to, most people under these situations choose to work overtime because they value their work a lot, and that he doesn't buy into social engineering arguments that people are pressured into doing it because otherwise they'd get fired.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#26Can’t say for video game industry. But software engineers are both in hot demand and well compensated, as such, I personally and the people I know are mostly content and not likely to join an union.
True however as soon as market conditions change and software engineers aren't in demand, which will at some point happen (hopefully not soon though), then businesses will adjust.
The best time to unionize is WHILE software engineers have power and leverage.
And for examples of kinds of unions people don't usually think about, I believe there is an NBA players union. The screenwriters guild of america functions as a union, I think. Lots of unions in Hollywood.
I wanted to give some examples of high-status or high-compensation professions where professionals have chosen to unionize.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#27Video games need it badly, i thought technology people secured wages and benefits via negotiation and Talent?
There's a lot of semi- or non-technical roles, like art, audio, and QA, in the games industry.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#28Have you considered what your career will be like at age 48? 55? 62?
It's true that software developers are well compensated and in high demand, that demand tapers off rapidly after 40, when ageism comes up.
If you want to go into management, then it's climb the corporate ladder, and get promoted until you can't do your job.
What if you want to stay an IC? Become the lone developer who can support a legacy react application, while 99% of the team is working on whatever the latest CS languages?
A labor union for software developers would be an insurance policy for our futures.
Something to consider.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#29Game developers are like actors in Hollywood. Massive supply of candidates so the pay is not that great. It's a cool and challenging work but everyone would prefer it than "boring" programming jobs which actually pay much better and don't require crunching.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#30I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…
> it's not like you don't have options There's a catch-22 there, though - the more times you exercise your option (to move to a different job), the harder it is to exercise it the next time. Too many job changes is considered a negative.
Eh, not at the moment. It's a sellers market. Maybe if a recession comes about.